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New subscription punishment policy here 5

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Does he think that Autodesk is not reading this stuff? SolidWorks is only shooting itself in the foot!

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Jul 13, 2008)
 
Guys, I think we're all looking at this in the wrong way. It's clear that the SW execs don't care what we have to say about the new policy. So I think that if we are forced into paying for some added value from our VARs we should utilize it. I propose that we all start calling them up for random day-to-day issues. How do you make a rectangle? What is a drawing? How do you open a file? Where did I put my keys? Can you pick up my son from soccer practice? Let's make them work for it. Maybe stop by with your laundry and ask them to have it done by lunch. Then we'll see if they really want to keep the same business model, or if giving us a couple of options really isn't such a bad idea after all.

Dan

 
I have the latest Inventor loaded on my laptop...waiting for training. From what I have seen so far with Inventor, SolidWorks had better get more motivated and try harder to not get their user's upset.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Jul 13, 2008)
 
No kidding. Have you noticed all the technology/software companies Autodesk has bought up in the last couple of years? It's truly astounding the juggernaut they're working on--everything from ID to engineering to architecture to film production. Next they'll integrate everything to make it cross-compatible (well, if they're smarter than they have been in the past).



Jeff Mowry
A people who value security over freedom will soon find they have neither.
 
Hi guys

I've received this unpleasent letter to. I think SW is going the wrong way.

IMO the costumers have the right to suspend the subscription for some time as they understand that the money does not correspond to the pretended enhancements. We have seen a lot of this, when SW was investing time in nice icons and new bugs (I think only since 2007 things have changed), instead of what realy was needed: more stability, more speed, more features.

AFAIK, with no subscription there's no support nor new SP's. So, I think it isn't unfair that the fee to return to subscription it's less than the subscription*year.
After all, who stayed in subscription had a better service than the others, and skyping subscriprion it´s a way of "punish" SW for not doing the work properly.

Lets make it clear that I pay subscription.

Another problem it´s the support quality. It's common to get a better and faster support here, in this forum, than from a var. Sometimes I need to solve problems myself (like running the flexlm driver in XP x64, one thing that my var told me it was not possible). One big problem VAR's have, it's that they don't realy need to work with SW, as we all do. So all of you (at least all together) are far better than (I suppose) any VAR. So the money we pay for support realy worth it?

My company is growing, so we are considering installing more SW lics and PDM Enterprise. When my VAR sended me the subscription fees of PDME, my eyes poped out! And they say that the payement it's more for support than for enhancements, as the software it's very mature! And also to keep up with new releases of SW.
It's almost impossible to justify all the costs with SW and PDM Enterprise subscription. So the solution will be: buy PDM Enterprise without subscription and end SW subscription; let the IT guys decide to buy another software. Anyway, SW will loose.

Regards
 
Face it, SW is growing up. While I agree that their subscription methods stink, you are still getting a lot of bang for the buck.
NX (was UG) costs an order of magnitude more, and if you just work with basic geometry, it is overkill. However, they do have it right in how they charge the customer; an annual invoice is sent for any services expected. If you don't pay that invoice, don't expect any support. Pay it, and many avenues of support are opened.
It's a shame that SW is ruining their customer relations as they are, for they really do have a good product for the money.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - [small]Thomas Jefferson [/small]
 
I don't mind paying for what I use. My pricey mouse at my hand pays for itself. My annual "maintenance"--at least this last year--has paid me $0.00 in returns. However, SolidWorks means to take the option of making a good investment in my own business away from me through these extortive tactics. Yes, I can choose to pay and play or not pay and not play. But what's behind the business interference from SolidWorks, and how can this move possibly play well for them in the medium- to long-term? I don't see it.



Jeff Mowry
A people who value security over freedom will soon find they have neither.
 
Like marriage...pay for good service for a while, then it stops for a while. When it's gone for good, it comes back and demands $$ for past service! [tongue]

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Jul 13, 2008)
 
[2thumbsup]

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Jul 13, 2008)
 
I got a few calls from my VAR "encouraging" me to get up-to-date before rates go up.

Why do I need to pay for past service I did not need or use? Why should I pay for future service I will not need? They should pay me. By the time I call them with a problem, it's over their heads and becomes a real issue.

I'll just start fresh with a new seat if/when the need arises.
 
There are two main issues being discussed here. The original topic is the fee for reinstating a subscription that has lapsed. The second is that users do not have access to upgrades without also paying for technical support regardless of weather they need or want it.

We have 3 seats here, and I do not think that any of us have contacted our VARs for tech support in the last two years. I have a hard time coming up with anything of value that we receive from the portion of our subscription fee that goes to the VAR. The best that I have is that they use some of that money to attract new users and retain existing users whose purchase and subscriptions support further development of the application. That is an indirect return on investment at best.

Having a fee for reinstating a subscription that has lapsed is reasonable, but poorly presented. The portion of the subscription fee that does not go to the VAR can be viewed as purchasing an upgrade from your current version to the next version. By starting a subscription mid version and going one year on and one year off, a user could get all the versions while paying only half of the subscription fees. The late fee serves to discourage this practice.

The upgrade through the subscription does cost less than buying a new license. This takes into account two things. The user already has an older version so the new version has less value to them than to someone who doesn’t already own an older version. And, the user already contributed to the development of the application when they bought their old version. While not the usual practice, it seems fair that the older the version that is being upgraded, the greater the cost to upgrade. This is similar in nature to the fee for renewing a lapsed subscription increasing for each year that the user is off subscription.

A reasonable and fair system would be to allow users to purchase upgrades for a price based on how old their current version is, with no requirement for subscription based tech support. The previous version could be one price, the one before that a higher price and so on. Users who want tech support via subscription through their VARs could purchase that separately.

Eric
 
I concur with several of your opinions regarding the effectiveness of VAR support. If you get plenty of help, bully for you, but in my case it's usually me that teaches them. Except for deactivating a license on a stolen laptop I can't remember needing my VAR for anything in the last 5 years.

The only thing subscription buys my company is access to service packs which should be free anyway. Why do I need to pay to make sure the software I purchased is bug-free as advertised? I know we also receive upgrades to the newest version, but it's a bit shady to charge me for an upgrade that I may or may not use. Specifically, my company has paid the last two years' dues. However, I have no intention of upgrading from 2007 until 2009 because there's no way I'm getting mired in the shite that is 2008.

As Eric mentioned, it's fair to assume an upgrade from a 2 year old software should cost more than an upgrade from last year's version. However, the difference here is we're being forced to incrementally pay for this upgrade at the beginning of the subscription year. Each year I wonder:
"Is this year's version worth the money I've already paid for it?"
"No?"
"Ok, let's pay again in another year and hope for the best."
I would prefer to let our subscriptions lapse and backpay the fees, except that this route leaves us out in the cold when it comes to SPs.

People and/or companies are generally willing to pay for the specific services they use, so why incur the disdain of loyal users by forcing open their pocketbooks unnecessarily. The new (and old) fee structure is more like a good reason to abandon subscription and stick to a stable old SP5, not a reason to make sure you pay on time and not get fined. So long story long... bite me SW. I like money hungry corporations about as much as pickpockets and meter maids. Can you tell I'm tired and cranky today?

-Mahir
 
takedownca,

You are correct in all you say except that you are not out in the cold with regard to service packs. You are entitled to all the service packs on the version you purchased. I know because I am still on SW2005 and I was supplied with all the service packs by the VAR from which the software was purchased. I do not subscribe to support and never have. Some day I may feel the need to upgrade and at that time I will pay the necessary fees and get the latest version. In the mean time, I do not need the latest and greatest so I do not need support. This path has always been open per SW policy.

Timelord
 
Timelord,

Wow, if that's true I feel quite the retard (where are the Special Olympics folks?) for letting my current and past employers fall into the subscription trap for so many years. It's not my money, but it still stings a bit. I'll be checking with my VAR and/or SolidWorks, and if this pans out my last subscription fee will hopefully be the last one I pay before I actually want to upgrade.
 
Timelord,

Did you buy SW2005 before or after all the SPs were released? I know you're entitled to whatever SPs were released at the time you purchased SW, but I'd like to confirm you were given access to future SPs that were released after your purchase date.
 
This is strange, I am typing this response a second time. The first time it did not appear in the thread, just disappeared when I pushed the submit button. Weird!!

As to the SW service packs, my boss bought the copy and never used it. I got the copy in 2006 and the install discs were at SP0.0. I called the VAR and asked for the service packs and they supplied them on a disc. They updated their records to show me as the user at that time.

Timelord
 
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