New vessels built to old 2007 Ed ASME codes 1

[jtseng123]

Dear all,

We have projects using US Federal government regulations that vessels shall be built to 2007 Ed of Div 1 and 2 in US soil.

If there any problem to code stamp and apply national board registration to 2007 Ed for new vessels ?

 

[TGS4]

The selection of a particular edition of the Code is between the purchaser and the manufacturer. However, I would strongly caution you about using the 2007 Edition of Div 2. That was the first year of the "new" Div 2 and, how shall I say this, had a whole bunch of "issues". Most of these were worked out by the 2010 Edition.

 

[jtseng123]

Just got the attachment from one of the supplier referring to 43-2(b). It seems I can not build to the old code.
Can someone have the inside to confirm yes or no ? Thanks.

 

[TGS4]

What is the specific jurisdiction where the vessels will be installed? Ask them - that's the only answer that counts.

 

[racookpe1978]

Usually, you will have fewer problems getting the customer to accept a more recent Code, BUT - the government IS NOT A REASONABLE ENTITY - but a bureaucratic pile of old paper being run by people who rarely do anything but "read the book", and who have been hired specifically they "are" only capable of reading the book. These book-readers are afraid of innovation, though they are also almost always very, very afraid of being "made to blame" for anything in the future. They will typically take cover under the original contract or terms because that way "they" do not have to make a decision. Carefully approached, this attitude can be used to get the right answer from anybody higher than a clerk.

Appeal higher if the book-readers claim you cannot use the modern code.

 

[racookpe1978]

Thus, a simple letter addendum stating

"Contract ABC-123 rev 0.1.45 paragraph 1.2.3.4.5.6.7 dated 1 April 2008 requires the use of ASME Code 2007 Div I. Unless otherwise directed, the following pressure vessels per ABC-123 shall be designed, inspected, constructed and installed IAW the latest approved ASME Code for Pressure Vessels."

Do not require anything more elaborate, do not attract attention to the letter nor the addendum, do NOT ask for a contract change NOR ANY FUNDING INCREASE (and not any decrease either) nor a change in schedule. Just a simple, able-to-be-filed-away paper copy letter that goes in the certification folder.

In other words, let the governemnt "decide" to do what is right and proper and conservative in design and safety for the public by "allowing" them to make a decision by doing - and saying! - nothing.

 

[Duwe6]

". . installed IAW the latest approved ASME Code for Pressure Vessels."

Exactly how I would do it. And as racookpe said, make no 'fuss', ask no questions, etc. Excellent advice.

be vewwy, vewwy quiet. We are hunting wabbits.

 

[weldstan]

Please note that Pressure Vessels are normally not required to be stamped when the Owner/User is the Federal Government.

 

[jtseng123]

Thanks all.
Attached is the government regulations we are following. Our projects are for private LNG facilities that regulations must be followed to get green light from federal government. Apparently, from ASME code we can not build to old code, and it looks like we have to write a petition for a waiver to government. We try not to write any waiver because it will further delay the projects by at least 6 months for government to review and approve the waiver.

So still back to ground zero, can we build the vessel using 2007 to comply with government regulations while ignoring what's written in ASME code 43-2(b) in US soil ? And can code stamp and NBR be applied ?

 

[EnergyMix]

jtseng123

I have the feeling you know the answer: You're going to be in the wrong on one or the other. Time to get your company's lawyers and contract folks involved.

Want to know the do's and don'ts of Eng-Tips? Read FAQ731-376.
English not your native language? Looking for some help in getting your question across to others or understanding their answers? Go to forum1529.

 

[abuanaselmasry]

I'm out of USA. However, our AI doesn't accept to code stamp a vessel for old code edition. The same question I had raised to the Team Leader during the renewal stamp audit, the same "No" reply I received it.

Regards,
M.Salaheldin
Static Equipment Mechanical Design Engineer

 

[JStephen]

Is there anything that prevents it from complying with BOTH revisions? If not, that's one approach that may complicate the paperwork but would resolve the issue to the satisfaction of all concerned.

For some background: I'm used to working to specifications that will call out the latest edition of certain standards. And ASME B&PV Code is set up specifically for this. This is especially evident when addendums are issued that are looseleaf and intended to be inserted piecemeal in the code. It means you no longer have the "old" code after you insert the addendum. So all is well there.

However, as was pointed out to me in the Structural forum, typical local building codes will reference a specific year of IBC, and that IBC will reference a specific year of ASCE 7, and that standard references specific years of other standards. So a city may require you to work with a standard that is 14 years out of date. This is all okay, too, until you wind up with exactly the kind of situation you're facing.

 

[weldstan]

The requirements of Part 193 apply to the Owner/Operator of the LNG facility. If you are the vessel manufacturer, ask the Owner/Operator or its Engineer; they may have clarified this issue in the permitting process. Federal regulations are simply not as often updated as the ASME Code. You may build to the 2007 Edition, as the Jurisdictional requirements trump ASME.

 

[TGS4]

Just for reference, there are some nuclear power plants in the US that were originally permitted and built in the 1970's. Because the original permit specifies a specific year of the Code, all original and subsequent construction on the site was to that specific Edition of the Code. Some sites have avoided going the re-permitting route and have done all repairs and minor new construction to the Original Year specified in their permit. So, there could be new equipment in a nuclear plant built to 30+ year old Codes.

Or, you could have a contract let to build a new Section VIII pressure vessel - say back in 2007 (referencing the 2006 Edition of the Code). Then the project was put on ice during the recession, and only recently resurrected. Following the rules in the Code about the contract date, the vessel could be fabricated to the 2006 Edition and not the most current.

(Just to put this issue into context)