No engine temperature guage on new UK Fords 3

[john66b]

My latest Ford has no temperature gauge, although an over temperature warning light is present. I was annoyed to find a cheaper model than mine had a bargraph type display, rather than a separate analogue type gauge, built into an led array on the instrument cluster.
I am an ex-services automotive professional, and all my experience is pre-ECU technology, although I have hands-on experience of a VAG analyser and computers/electronics in general. My question is, do they change wiring design, or instrument cluster design just to save a few pennies, or is it possible that the LED element is present, though unused on my vehicle, Ford B Max, and could perhaps be enabled with a software modification or diagnostic tools?

Thanks, John.

 

[MikeHalloran]

I doubt there are any unused LEDs installed.
Here in The Colonies, Ford is (in)famous for using mechanical semaphores, that look like real gages, but actually function more like indicator lights. The 1-bit sensors are cheaper.

However, help is available. Adapters exist that plug into the vehicle's bus, and display as many gages as you could imagine, on an iPad. Probably cheaper than a real gage array of decent quality, if you get a decent price on the iPad, and easier to install.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[GregLocock]

"do they change wiring design, or instrument cluster design just to save a few pennies"

Yes. There are many costs associated with having multiple designs for a given subsystem, which are documented, so we can figure out whether a given cost save is worth going for. I doubt we'd bother for 'a few' pennies.

More likely the high series cluster is almost a whole new part, so the cost save from leaving the gage off is part of the new design.

For what its worth Subaru ECT gages have a needle, but it only has 4 positions in reality (off, cool, normal, red).

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[john66b]

Thanks, guys,
I am hoping to get a copy of the car's schematic at some stage. It's just that some of the older guys in an owner's forum were bemoaning the fact that there was not one fitted, although there do seem to be some regional differences to other parts of the lcd/led display, for example, there is a "shift up" indicator, on the Danish version it gives the number of the next gear, but not in the UK, and even then not all cars! That gave rise to the question about ECU/BCM software..

John.

 

[fazc76]

Some Toyota vehicles have a similar setup now where they don't have a temp gauge, just a warning light that will show when the engine has overheated.

Mercedes now don't even bother with a dipstick to check engine oil levels !!! We are supposed to trust their oil level sensor that will display on the dash.

Anyway, you could always plumb in a temp sensor in the waterworks and fit a gauge on the dash
OR
You can get bluetooth OBD connectors to connect to the diagnostics plug and download a OBD reader software to your smartphone and keep an eye on many things

 

[john66b]

Thanks for that! My argument is, why when it is fitted to a cheaper model, do they then leave it out of the top of the range. Mine is a B Max Titanium, yet a bog-standard Fiesta has it fitted. The clusters look to all intents and purposes identical, and I'm going to get hold of both sets of schematics to see the differences electronically.
I have already considered an OBD connector, but I may go for a more comprehensive laptop adapter later.

 

[stevewaclo]

Gauges! We don't need no stinking gauges!

With apologies to "Treasure of the Sierra Madre", I suspect conventional dash instrumentation is doomed to follow buggy whips into the dustbin of history.

As all are no doubt aware, easily configured electronic displays will soon replace the conventional variety, providing options for more system information than we even want to know, or indeed be able to process.

Another thought on temperature gauges. Considering the catastrophic implications of engine overheat, I've always wondered why manufactures have not integrated buzzers, flashing lights, little guys waving red flags and similar dire warnings as coolant temps approach incandescence (hmmm, can coolant incandence ?) One would think emergency procedures such as A/C shutdown, cabin heat to max, all windows open and other options I'm not smart enough to conceive, would be considered, up to and including programmed, gradual engine shut-down, encouraging the driver to overcome his urge to make it to the next exit (the fair sex are too smart to do dumb things like that ) and pull off for a tow.

Back to the Ford situation, engineers probably decided since folks are already ignoring gauges, may as well just give them a much less expensive warning light to ignore.

BTW, further research indicated the overheat/shut-down options I posited are all about the lawyers (and maybe the dealers, who welcome major engine work into the shop, but perhaps I let my cynicism get the better of me .

Thoughts?

Best wishes.

 

[GregLocock]

FWIW the Ford Australia I6 has a limp home mode that engages if the coolant gets dumped. Hire car firms love it.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[dgallup]

When Cadillac introduced their Northstar engine line they made a big deal about it's ability to limp home with total loss of coolant. It alternated cutting the spark to one bank of cylinders then the other, letting them air & oil cool. Supposedly you could drive 100 miles in this mode.



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[WGJ]

Trouble is, you are all looking at the issue from the point of view of engineers, enthusiasts and people who give a s??t.

This accounts for less than 20% of the buyers, I would guess, according to Pareto. The rest are more interested in what colour the radio display is, in terms of instrumentation.

Even going back a few years (mid-90s), the marketing folks were interfering with stuff like this.
I was associated with the cluster design and software team of a certain global manufacturer that was introducing so-called 'air-cored' (moving iron) gauges across the board, to replace old bi-metal types.
I was handling fuel level sensors at the time.
These new gauges were heaven, compared to the old bi-metals as they had an almost linear response compared to the bi-met 'S' shaped response.

On the temperature side of things, and as an engineer, you'd think a nice linear would be great.
But no - Marketing decided that the average punter would be worried by seeing the gauge pointer moving around a bit during driving and so instructed engineering & software folks to come up with a strategy that effectively kept the pointer at 'cold' until the engine reached about 80degC, when is sprang up to precisely the middle of the pointer travel, and stayed there unless the engine was about to get out and walk, whence the pointer would spring up to the top of the red zone.

Why bother with a gauge then?

Bill

 

[john66b]

Thanks, folks, for both considered and humorous replies... yes,unfortunately for me I'm an elderly engineer/ enthusiast that does give a Sh*t!

Let me just re-iterate what my gripe is. I now know from research that modern instrument clusters are microprocessor controlled receiving data from the ECU/BCU ex-sensors, but I fail to see why, over two identical, to all intents and purposes instrument clusters that a tiny bargraph would be displayed in one, and not the other? Maybe somebody will tell me the matrix is totally different, yet all other functions are identical?
I paid a lot of extra money for the top of the range, and whilst I accept that over temperature warning is still present, it just comes across as more cheapskating.
I'm not looking for a bi-metal/moving iron/moving coil instrument, and wondering, in the event that the bargraph is present, but not enabled, if it can be? Is there anyone reading who does instrument panel programming who may help? All replies are welcome though.

One of my friends,same background as me, apprentiship (Army) military vehicle engineering, then many years in heavy goods vehicle engineering says he would rather have a temperature gauge than a tacho!!
I did seek help from Ford technical () support, a premium rate number, patronising, non-technical and useless.

All the best, John.

 

[dgallup]

No help to your problem John, but before too long these displays are going to be pure bit mapped touch screens like an ipad. You will be able to customize the complete display, down load a skin for it, an app or three and have micro second incremental control of the intermittent wiper delay. Unfortunately, you will have to keep a teenager in the car at all times to make it work.

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[WGJ]

First - john66b - are you in the UK?
If you are, then I'm not surprised at your experience with FMC 'Technical' help. Much of that function has gone out to a contract house (MSX, I think) and they regularly advertise for people to do the job. I think they just work from a script.

dgallup - tooooo true. I am a dinosaur and don't give a monkey's cuss about the whizz bang, flashing LED, cold cathode, back-lit horsesh!t appearing in many new cars.
Some of this stuff is going to be an expensive repair in just a few years if iPads and SmartPhones are anything to go by.
Cars could become scrappers, simply due to the cost of replacing the kids-toys 'information centres'.

Nyaahhhh...

Bill

 

[john66b]

Thanks, All,
Time to put this thread to an end. Lack of a gauge (bar graph et al)is indeed penny pinching! The element does not exist in my model. The lesser model that has it now will loose it in future... bollix!

You were right,WGJ, it was Ford Uk. Tech support is not all they are out-sourcing, they are pushing Accident Management as well, it says Ford but is as usual some tin-pot company, making it's money out of rip-off hire cars and whiplash, no doubt. Here in the UK any respectable car body repair shop supplies you with a courtesy car on your existing insurance, no need for contract hire, just a rip-off on us all..

All the best, Guys,

John