Nobody offers me a job, even an interview...! 6

[zimbali]

Hi dear engineer friends,

I've got my BS in Electrical and Control Engineering (5 year course) from one of the best non-US (from Asia) accredited university in the world with an average of 76%. I used to work (part time and contract) in an Automotive supplying parts company for four years during the BS degree. After the Uni, I continued to work with them for one year more (full time) and then moved to England to study Master in Automotive Engineering. I designed and made some devices from concept to production, each for the first time in my country.

Now I almost finished my Master in Automotive Engineering and have been looking for a proper job for more than 7-8 months. Although my background was totally different from the MSc course, and English was not my mother tongue, but I managed to take a distinction degree with an average of 78% and ranked first in the department.

Now I'm an automotive electronics embedded system designer (very good experience), a programmer, Electronics guy, a good control and instrumentation guy (some experience), a bit mechanical and some automotive (no practical experience though) and very strong mathematics and physics are on the top of all that.

I don't say I did something exceptional, by no means. But I was at least better than average. No company even asked me for even a simple interview. Could anybody tell me what's wrong with me (or the companies)? What else could a 25 yaer graduate student have done? I mainly applied for automotive electronics companies, big and small. I see some people working in some companies in high rank engineering positions (and I worked with them in some projects) and can swear that I am a better engineer, but I'm here at home spending money and they are at work making money!!

Thanks for reading this long, sad story of mine.

Cheers
SAEED

 

[GregLocock]

Have you tried asking these companies why you aren't getting to interview?

There was a survey in The Australian the other day. The article was pushing the benefits of higher degrees. They listed the starting salary by degree type and level. Engineering was the only discipline where the additional degrees resulted in a drop in starting salary. On the other hand I agree that in your position I would have gone for the Masters. Have you checked with the IMechE or IEE to see if your qualifications are now sufficient for Chartership?

Incidentally, if you seriously think you are a better engineer than someone who has more experience than you, perhaps that attitude may be part of the issue. It is very nice to be technically brilliant, but a lot of an engineer's effectiveness comes from other attributes.


Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[corus]

Sometimes higher qualifications can be a set-back. I was told (after phoning them) that I was over-qualified for some jobs I applied for and they wouldn't consider me. My offering to 'tipex' out some qualifications on my CV for them didn't help either.
Try a different approach to finding work. Applying for jobs through through newspaper adverts isn't too successful as a lot of companies don't even advertise. Do your research on companies, find the departmental manager's name, write and then phone. Even if they can't offer you a job they might know of other places where there will be opportunites. It's all a matter of luck and increasing your odds.

 

[pablo02]

zimbali -- join the crowd; there are many of us in your shoes and with more experience and more credentials that have looked a long time (my former boss just went through a two year search); the economy is not good and employers are looking for the best fit for the fewest bucks... so they are using employment agencies and personnel dept. to screen their applicants often times by people and screening guidelines that will inadvertantly eliminate their most promising applicants along with those who shouldn't have applied in the first place... you have to be selective in the companies you apply at and you must find away around their screening process -- that's why networking and people contacts are going to be your best bet.... good luck

 

[zimbali]

Greg- Thanks for the reply. I've never asked them as I thought when they make a decision that's it, besides I think if I ask they'll say you are not the one we are looking for . And for the second part, I'm a real down to earth person, never suggest my opposing ideas very sharply and in an offensive or agressive manner. I strongly believe that experience is more important than qualification and degree, because I saw enough cases and I never ever think that because, say, I can calculate a complex three dimensional integral I should be , or am, better than a senior engineer, no way. Sorry about the wrong impression I gave to you.

I'm quit sure about IEEE and my BSc but don't have any idea about IMechE. How can I check it and what is the procedure to be a chartered engineer? thanks for any help.

Thanks Corus, I haven't tried that one, it should be a good idea. But do managers care about the letters from unknown sources at all?

Pablo, that's right. I've gotta be more patient but I'm running out of time. I cannot stay in the UK for a long time as I'm from a visa country and they don't extend my visa for sitting here and looking for job.

And please somebody tell me if this "Equal Opportunity" is something for show off or companies really don't care where you are from and other things (specially in the UK)?

 

[TheTick]

Since you are already so far along in your education, perhaps go all the way. You are in the middle and can't go backward, so move forward. Pursue a doctorate and get into education and research.

-OR-

Somehow "forget" to mention your masters degree on your CV and resume when applying for entry level positions. I have seen this done. Later, when you have more experience, your masters will not be an encumberance.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[electricpete]

In the US, being a minority will definitely get you noticed. I would say 4 of the last 5 engineers brought into our company were ethnic minority or women.

 

[zimbali]

TheTick,

Actually I've got an admission to study PhD in Intelligent Control and Transportation Safety in University of George Washington. If I can take the visa I can start the course, a 5 year one, in January.
Supervisor said there will be a big chance to take a scholarship as well. BUT I'm scared that if this PhD makes everything worse, over-over qualified! I can hide this one year MSC in my CV, but not that 5 year PhD. Besides, I'll have a student life upto 30. Is there any good chance in states for a PhD qualified? Do the benefits worth to study more 5 years?

 

[zdas04]

A PhD would make someone over-qualified for most entry-level engineering position, but it is almost required for an entry-level research or university position. If you're too big a fish for the entry-level engineering pond, move to the ocean and try to compete with the really big fish.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

http://www.muleshoe-eng.com

 

[TheTick]

I think the playing field for a PhD is a lot different than that for a MS. Definitely more research oriented.

Basically, I see it as two choices as I outlined previously.

I recently had the opportunity to help my boss interview candidates for a position parallel to mine. Very enlightening experience. In the future, I will definitely shorten my resume to include ONLY those points of most interest to specific employers, though leave some indication that there is more to discuss.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[TheTick]

Also, for what it's worth: your written English is excellent. If your spoken English is half as good, it should not be a problem.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[corus]

Zimbali,
Check the IMechE web site or phone them up in London to enquire about membership.
Managers do read cold-calling letters and more importantly they do answer the phone. A letter with a promise to call in a week is a good way to find about jobs. Personnel, or Human Resource people don't read them however. Some do actually keep your CV on file, though I've never had a company ask if I was available some time later. The companies that keep your CV on file are generally those that don't need to advertise, they already have lots of people writing in.
Equal opportunities does exist in the UK and I've found that they generally look more favourably on those from Asia, especially the far east, as being more conscientious. Their only concern is the language however.
With a Masters degree I'd be looking at research rather than general engineering where most people would be afraid to hire you in case you were cleverer than them. Personally I wouldn't worry about chartered status as your Masters degree shows you have that 'extra' qualification that chartered offers. Perhaps think about that after you've found work and have built up some practical experience. I'd mention it on your CV that you're seeking chartered status, it's something to talk about at the interview.

 

[zimbali]

Thanks for all the helps and compliments. I hope everything would be sorted out for me and THE CROWD.

Corus- I'll check IMechE for sure and thanks for the reply.

 

[RDK]

The only thing that the employers have seen of you is your resume and cover letter. I would look at that first.

Is this professionally done, free of grammatical errors and typo’s? Is it in the requested electronic format is electronic or printed on high quality paper if on hard copy?

One mistake is to print on non-standard paper sizes or to bind the resume. This makes it difficult for the HR types to handle in a stack of standard page sizes. The notice that this gets you is not favourable.

Does it present you in a favourable light, highlighting your accomplishments in a manner that indicates that you understand that you are long on education and short on experience?

If you want some constructive criticism on thee documents, follow the link in my signature line and you can send them to me by e-mail and I’ll have a look at them and offer any comments.

You can call the HR departments at firms where you have applied to see why you are unsuccessful in getting interviews. Most HR types will at least give you some pointers. It may be that there is no fit between your skills and their needs right now and they understand that its best to have good relations in case your skills are needed in the future.

There is a lot of job-hunting advice out there. The best I can give is to find a method that you feel comfortable with. If you follow an aggressive job search style and you are a more laid back type (or the reverse) then you will only succeed in finding jobs that want aggressive types and you will not be a good fit to that sort of position.


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[zimbali]

Dear Rick,

I realy appreciate your help and attention.


Cheers

 

[MortenA]

When i was looking for my first job 8 years ago i went unemployed for a whole year. I send out about 100 applications and for the first 1/2 year i didnt get called to an interview. The whole time i was "perfecting" my application using my wife as a sparring partner. Then i found my "formula". The right application for me.

I dont beleive in writing individual applications for each position you seek (at least not when looking for the first job). I found that with my perfected application i got called to nterviews and finally I got the job.

Writing the application is just for getting to an interview - not to get the job.

Try setting up a template and then change wordings and see if that work. When you finally do get called for an interview stick to that!

Best regards

Morten

 

[TheTick]

FEA and NVH are two fields where advanced degrees are quite welcome.

 

[zimbali]

I must thank Rick for his help and giving a very long descriptive advice on my CV. I'm realy happy to have such support from somebody that has never seen me. Good luck and wish you all the best.

Thanks for other friends' support as well, I felt that it was me alone experiencing such a problem. When I hear that it's common I can move forward more easily, a common pain is more tolerable .

And does anybody have any idea about the difference of PhD and D.Sc. ? Thanx

Cheers

 

[Maui]

Unless your goal is to be involved in basic research or to teach at the college level, don't get the Ph.D. It's a waste of considerable time and effort. The response that I have heard from almost every company that I have applied to for work is, "You're overqualified". The Ph.D. will close more doors than it will open in industry. Employers don't want to hire you because they will have to pay you more than someone with a Bachelor's or Master's degree. They're also afraid that you will become bored and move on to a more intestesting position in a short amount of time. That would force them to go through the hiring process all over again, which they don't want to do. Many of your less secure co-workers will feel threatened by your background, and it can cause a surprising amount effort to overcome this handicap that you thought would be a significant advantage. And keep in mind that this is a very significant part of your young life that is spent earning this degree when you could be spending it doing something much more enjoyable. Use your time, don't waste it on earning your Ph.D.

Maui

 

[zimbali]

Hi Maui,
I tried to find a job as I said before. I don't wanna go back to my country (long term speaking) as there is no way to improve there. I cannot live and remain here in the UK without a job and the only way to get into states is go for a PhD. I donno where you are from but it does matter. If I were an American Citizen, I would never go for a DSc or a PhD. I would go for a job and at the end of the day I would have found a job. But now, to live and remain in the west world it seems that I have to SPEND 5 more years of my life to (may be)ACHIEVE what an american has. Life is not fair always and sometimes just dictates you what you've gotta do. If i can't find a job here, I've gotta move there to see what's happening next. I know it's the most enjoyable time in my life BUT I enjoy studying as well ( I have to ).



Cheers


You can live in your car, but you can't drive your House!