Normally, our fridge works. We liv

[TomInTunis1]

Normally, our fridge works. We live in a rural area where there are power interruptions. We have to use a generator sometimes for several hours. When the genset is proving power the fridge (rated 230 V - 2.7 A) will not start. But ... if we plug in the electric kettle (2000 W) in the adjacent socket, presto, the fridge miraculously comes on . I tried this in the other 3 dual sockets in the kitchen and like the first socket, the fridge wouldn't start until I glipped the 'on' switch of the kettle. With each of these tests, the fridge would stop running a few seconds after the kettle stopped boiling. The house is old and for an immediate fix, where would you expect the problem to be?

 

[jghrist]

Sounds like you have an open line to one side of the line-line 240V connection to the fridge. The fridge then gets voltage when there is a connection from neutral to the line through the kettle.

I had a similar problem during an outage where one leg of my 120/240V service was open. I could get lights on the open leg only when my 240V water heater was on. I would take a shower in the dark until the water heater came on, then my bathroom lights would work at partial voltage.

If you are in Europe or the UK where the service is 230/400V, maybe your kettle provides a connection between the neutral to the other phase. Chances are this is the case because 230V fridges are not normal in North America.

 

[davidbeach]

Likely single phase-neutral 230V. Open neutral was my first thought as well, but that’s a North America thing.

When one this sentence into the German to translate wanted, would one the fact exploit, that the word order and the punctuation already with the German conventions agree.

-- Douglas Hofstadter, Jan 1982

 

[LittleInch]

I hope you have a procedure where you disconnect the incomer before turning the generator switch on. To be frank that connection is very dangerous and with only one connection for a 6KVA generator is dangerous.

But the issue would seem to be your fridge is sensitive to voltage or frequency and your generator needs a load to stabilise it.

Do you have a heater you can connect?

But first start looking at the voltages supplied before and after the kettle is turned on and off.

That generator looks rather old and I suspect its control of voltage is now rather poor.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[TomInTunis1]

Hi Everyone – I’ve summarized your comments and put my replies below. I hope to be able to video the voltmeter with the kettle running and fridge starting up. The fridge problem is only when the genset is on.

waross (Electrical)24 Apr 24 15:24 - Well noted. I will video the voltmeter tomorrow.
Does the generator have auto-start?
The fridge may not be drawing enough current to activate auto-start. There are a 5 - 20W lights, 2 - 45W laptop chargers, 4 - 50W fans, another but smaller fridge (94W consumption)
Try it with the switch on the generator in the RUN position rather than the AUTO position.
Don't worry about filament lamps.
Look at the voltmeter instead.

davidbeach (Electrical)24 Apr 24 21:07
Does the fridge have internal overvoltage protection that keeps it from running until the kettle pulls the voltage down? Can you advise me on how to check if the fridge has overvoltage protection?

jghrist (Electrical)25 Apr 24 02:29
Sounds like you have an open line to one side of the line-line 240V connection to the fridge. The fridge then gets voltage when there is a connection from neutral to the line through the kettle. This sounds quite plausible. However, on some occasions the fridge will start up without the kettle being started. In these cases, it does not stay on more than a minute. Would this negate your theory? BTW we are in Zambia.

I had a similar problem during an outage where one leg of my 120/240V service was open. I could get lights on the open leg only when my 240V water heater was on. I would take a shower in the dark until the water heater came on, then my bathroom lights would work at partial voltage.

If you are in Europe or the UK where the service is 230/400V, maybe your kettle provides a connection between the neutral to the other phase. Chances are this is the case because 230V fridges are not normal in North America.

davidbeach (Electrical)25 Apr 24 03:34 Noted.
Likely single phase-neutral 230V. Open neutral was my first thought as well, but that’s a North America thing. The generator is single phase but the utility provides 3 phase.

LittleInch (Petroleum)25 Apr 24 07:31
I hope you have a procedure where you disconnect the incomer before turning the generator switch on. The selector on the white box selects the power source. To be frank that connection is very dangerous and with only one connection for a 6KVA generator is dangerous. I agree its very dangerous. I am a tenant and not the owner.

But the issue would seem to be your fridge is sensitive to voltage or frequency and your generator needs a load to stabilise it.

Do you have a heater you can connect? No heater available. Current outdoor temperature around 85 – 90F. This genset won’t power on the 24,000 BTU aircon.

But first start looking at the voltages supplied before and after the kettle is turned on and off. I missed the opportunity for this today but hopefully tomorrow.

That generator looks rather old and I suspect its control of voltage is now rather poor. The voltmeter needle did not seem to vary from about 230 V today. But from my calcs the genset is certainly undersized for the demands at the two houses, and it has never started the aircon.

Remember - More details = better answers. Well noted.
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it. Well noted.

 

[TomInTunis1]

The utility power has returned. Here, like the UK, both wall sockets have their own separate on-off switches. I just noticed that I had turned the switch for the socket with the fridge to the off-position. Yet the fridge was running. This seems to furthur confirm the theory of jghrist. Where to from here? Would the ability to check for continuity using a multi-meter all to solve the problem?
Omit the above - it was wrong.

 

[waross]

Can you try a kettle in the outlet normally used for the fridge?
Can you try the fridge in an outlet normally used for the kettle.

Can you post a picture of the nameplate of the fridge?

Further to David's suggestion; those small generators tend to drop both voltage and frequency when a load is applied.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[TomInTunis1]

I did swap kettle and fridge sockets and no change -- see above.

It is not the original compressor - the new one is more quiet. Will send pics

 

[LittleInch]

Let's go back to basics here looking at your incomer cabinet.

Do you have three phase power coming in?
What are the three incoming wires?

How is this connected to give you single phase supply?

How is the generator connected to the house wiring?

What happens when the power goes off? What switches do you connect?
What is the white box and positions mean?

Connecting a single phase generator into something designed for three phase is going to give you weird results.

Have you tried just running a cable from that second socket on the generator direct into the plug on the refrigerator?



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[LittleInch]

tom

Have you electrocuted yourself?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[TomInTunis1]

Not quite electrocuted !
I shifted to other priorities. The power utility reduced the loadshetting for the past week or so and the generator had little use --> so the lettuce was not 'going off'.
The landlord said he'd get an 'electrician' to look at it.

I will come back to your questions when I have more info.

 

[LittleInch]

The whole thing looks very dodgy to me....

Ask him for a wiring diagram and see what face he pulls.

But get a second lead and try the fridge direct to the generator with nothing else plugged in. You can do that any time. At least if it works then you know its something to do with the wiring. If it doesn't then the fridge doesn't like the generator.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[TugboatEng]

I had a co-worker that had this exact scenario. His TV worked only when the electric oven was on. The problem ended up being an open neutral. A squirrel had chewed through a wire.