Number of women in engineering 7

[caluna]

Hello, just wondering what your take is on this-Why is only a small percent of engineers made up of women?
I am writing an article for our PE newsletter. From my viewpoint here, in Canada, as a 1980 mech eng. graduate (female), it looks like that the national average on numbers of women - as percent of total undergraduates- is decreasing since 2000. Now it is less than 20%. Less than 10% registered engineers in Canada are women. I would assume figures for USA may be a bit better. What are the barriers for women or the discouraging aspects of the profession? I would have hoped that with passing years there would be more women in the field, but not so. The profession has been good to me and my female colleagues from university and work.

Thank you.

Heather in NWT Canada

 

[KENAT]

One factor that I think pushes some women away from traditional engineering fields into biotech and healthcare fields where you derive your job satisfaction- and I think for many women (I can hardly say it's universal) knowing that what they do will help someone is a huge part of their job satisfaction.

It's not just women. I and several male colleagues used to work in defense where it felt like (at least on a good day) we were working on something that mattered (unless you have ethical objections). We now work on metrology equipment, mostly for Semi Conductor, where it's all just about making money for the share holders... It's just doesn't give the same motivation.

 

[caluna]

This is a really interesting string- had no idea when I started it, the momentum would keep barrelling along!
It's obvious that work hours flexibility and child care are concerns are ones affecting women in engineering, or any demanding professon. What was said above about helping people (being appealing to women) seems true to me-we just have to expand the understanding of helping people past the regular female roles such as nurse/teacher/social services worker- isn't helping people the basis of most invention and engineering? Designing an energy-efficent building heating system or a better bridge, or even developing a line of sun protection products-those endeavours are all about helping others!

I do think that the "elbow grease and wrenches" perception or misconception re engineering may hold some women back from going into the field, just as it does with skilled trades. On the other hand, it is encouraging to look at the military which has good percentages of females now, as opposed to a couple of decades ago.

 

[IRstuff]

That's a bit of semantical splitting. The traditional roles for women are more technically classified as caregivers and nurturers. An energy-efficient building is not considered to be nurturing, per se.

One could easily argue that hunters "help" others by getting food for them.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[HgTX]

"An energy-efficient building is not considered to be nurturing, per se."

Neither is environmental engineering, and yet that's the direction a large portion of female civil engineering undergrads seem to head and in my gut it seems to make a certain amount of stereotypical sense.

Hg

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[queenbee]

Another factor is forming relationships. I think even in a highly team driven environment it's often based on competition not consensus building, another typically female trait.

 

[JLSeagull]

Over 30 years ago, women engineers were very rare. I would have expected the percentage to exceed 25% these days. I would expect better initial offers for women than men too.

I would also expect women engineers to be more quickly promoted out of the actual details of engineering than men in many fields.

Expectations aside, I also find a much smaller percentage of engineers among women who are willing to provide construction site support than among men. I share this observation because field experience is very valuable. In my business, field experience is necessary to truly understand what we are trying to do as engineers. A woman engineer with strong job site experience is very valuable in the market place.

 

[Senselessticker]

I think men like to get dirty more than women. That's why there are less women in engineering. When it comes to engineering management, I think if you really run the numbers...more % of women get promoted...and faster, but probably for less money.

 

[Witasz]

I think many of you are missing the bigger influences: society and culture. At a young age kids can easily see the various roles society and culture dictates to the sexes. Pick up a magazine, watch TV or a movie - Women are almost exclusively shown working in generic offices, being doctors or lawyers, and wearing cute outfits (Sex in the City, ER, Grey's Anatomy). Men are also shown in offices and working as doctors and lawyer. But they are also shown in manufacturing, construction, etc. I can't even name a movie or TV show that I remember a women being shown in a technical field outside of being a hacker or computer programmer. When one of the women’s magazines does its annual list of average salaries, they usually list only one technical profession (IT or chemist). I write every year to complain.

What kids don’t see, is the guy that stays home to take care of the kids while the wife (a chemical engineer with PhD) goes to work. They don’t see a woman as a plant manager or head of engineering. Hell even in my college 99% of my engineering professors were men – a handful of which complained when the school went co-ed in 1995! All the women professors were in the chemistry and humanities department.

Other problem I see even with my friends that went into engineering, they are uncomfortable with taking the lead or being a tough manager when it is needed. While taking about my latest project problems, a friend asked how I dealt with confrontation because she wouldn’t be able to handle it. It is okay for little boys to be bossy, but it’s discouraged in little girls. Good thing my Dad (also an engineer) taught me that sometimes you have to be tough to get the job done.

 

[Grubbyky]

Referring to the OP, and the barriers to women working in engineering.

Schools are more than happy to accept women, and engineering students are happy to have women in their classes (I went to an engineering school, not a big univ.- we really wished there were more women engineering students.)

I think a lot of old guys (the ones that do the hiring) are still stuck in the past and have discriminatory practices. That might only be in the middle of nowhere, USA- but that's what I have seen.

 

[mechmama]

Witasz,
You discuss what kids see on TV. I don't see any engineers on TV. . .when you do see male engineers on TV, They're usually portrayed negatively: either Dilbert-esque or hate engineering, like in Office Space. I am just fine with not seeing women engineers on sit-coms if they would also be portrayed in this negative manner. As for a sexy drama about an engineering office, if they had one, I'm sure the women engineers would end up sleeping with the boss, and I don't want to see that either!

On the plus side, I do see some positive role models for future-engineer girls on cable shows. Trading Spaces had a female carpenter. Myth Busters has a woman. That John Force show showcases his race car driving daughters - although I'd say the girls are definitely trying to appeal to the male audience. Flip That House has female "flippers." These might not be engineers per se, but maybe seeing a woman doing non-traditional, technical activities could lead girls to the engineering path. Women also take on technical roles in crime dramas. And Bob the Builder has his sidekick Wendy. There are some decent societal influences if we look.

 

[Senselessticker]

For some reason my post just above is missing the first 4 paragraphs. And only the last couple of sentences are shown.

I was basically stating that we should determine why there are so few female: truck drivers, electricians, pipe fitters, crane operators, construction laborers, instrument technicians, construction supervisors, masons, carpenters, roofers, etc.. etc... the list can go on and on.

Unless an engineer has only a desk job then he/she will most likely grow accustomed to working along with these folks above and being called an S.O.B by some sweaty, smelly, and dirty construction supervisor.

My point is that most women I know prefer to avoid such situations.

 

[swearingen]

Witasz's comment on confrontation and being tough brings up a quote my wife said when she ran a 2-Doctor orthodontist office - for a woman in a managerial role, "the line between b***h and pushover is very thin. For men, the gap between a**hole and wimp is much larger." I had never thought of that until my wife said it and I think she's right. It is much tougher for a female to be an effective manager because of that thin line she must walk.



If you "heard" it on the internet, it's guilty until proven innocent. - DCS

 

[IRstuff]

That's unfortunately true for women in managerial positions. But, I don't think that it's any line that "THEY" walk; they are what they are, and it's simply conditioned perceptions of the men.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[HgTX]

Senselessticker--I refer you back to bk11's post of 18 Apr 07 0:04

Hg

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[IRstuff]

If anyone thinks that women become nurses to avoid smelly people, then they've got a serious brain fart.

ER and other nurses routinely deal with "patients" who haven't seen a bathtub in YEARS. My wife, doing her ER rotation says that she's never even remotely experienced anything so wretched smelling as the typical homeless person.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[KENAT]

My wife has worked in Doctors offices and as a social worker. In both fields she has dealt with more dirty, smelly uncooth people than I ever have.

That said the main offenders were clients not colleagues.