O.T. Anyone have "Mouse Shoulder"?

[HobieTCat]

Hello all,

Since I started working with SolidWorks (but applies to any software) I spend long hours on the computer and I have developed what my doctor is calling "Mouse Shoulder". A terrible pain in my shoulder/neck area. I was calling it a Pinched Nerve for a while. It's been a few years in the making and I have tried the Ergo Mouses, the Ergo Station with the correct arrangements of everything, Ergo Chairs and some other stuff I have since forgotten about. The Ergo stuff seems to help, but twice as good as agony is still only misery, and I was hoping for better than that. My doctor, a physical therapist says that I need to spend less time on the computer. Even though this is a Workers Comp issue, I'm not looking to take advantage of that.

My question is: Has anybody found a way to treat "Mouse Shoulder" in an effective way? The doc had a thing called a Theracane at his office, it felt OK, but seemed like I had to use the muscles that hurt to operate the thing. He had a picture of a thing called a Pressure Pointer, it looked like some kind of a foot powered Theracane. Has anyone used a Pressure Pointer or Theracane? Or anything else that seems to help. I'd like to get an hour long shoulder massage every day by someone named Inga or maybe Anna, I'll see what the boss says about funding that.

Thanks for any ideas!

 

[TheTick]

http://www.prio.com

funny how glasses can help your posture
if i was a celebrity i would give them a free endorsement

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[SBaugh]

I got rid of the traditional mouse and moved to the Thumb controlled trackball. This has helped me over come the shoulder pain I once felt. I suffer from bursitis so the less movement I have in my right shoulder the better my day is. Trackman Marble Wheel by Logitech is the new mouse I use. It took about 2 weeks to get used too but I won't switch now.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

 

[TheTick]

Yoga.

Buy, read, and practice Yoga for Athletes: Secrets of an Olympic Coach by Aladar Kogler.

Any videos with Rodney Yee are good for starters.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[Mandrake22]

Is your arm supported from the elbow down? Mine is at work and I have no particular problems. We have sort of wraparound tables that allow this.
At home, I have minimal support, my elbow "sort of" rests on my chair armrest and the heel of my palm is on the mouse pad and I can do very little work without discomfort.

 

[NickE]

HobieTCat--

I have the same problem when I do lots of work with the mouse.

I support my arm from the foream down and dont let rest on my wrist or hands... I still get a very sore sholder when I work too long with the mouse. We are talking about getting a space ball? here at work to go with SW I ll post if theres any change.

nick

 

[SBaugh]

A spaceball is great for your Left hand, but you still have to use a mouse. You should look at the trackballs. Using a trackball means you don't have to move your Shoulder, Elbow or wrist. Only the fingers or in my case the thumb. You should still support your arm, but you don't have to move it. I too use a Spaceball and it's nice for your left hand, but your problem will still be there.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

 

[TateJ]

Before you do anything complicated - start with the simplest fix.
Make sure your arm is supported from the elbow down.
Think about lifting your desk up a little - I have a block of 2X4 under my desk legs.
Sounds like your lifting your shoulder while you mouse.
Your probably in the habit of pivoting your mouse on your wrist - very bad.
It concentrates the pressure on that small surface area - I'm supprised your fingers don't tingle.
But in order to pivot on your wrist, you have to lift your shoulder a little - constant tension in your neck.
Make an effort to mouse with your entire forearm - even if you have to wear a wrist splint for a while.
If it sounds like I'm speaking from experience - I am.
Sometimes just changing the ergonomics of your work-station helps indirectly.
Bottom line - change something - let it ride for a few weeks - then change something else.
You'll figure it out...

This will look favorable on my next review.
tatejATusfilter.com[/u]​

 

[ctopher]

A track ball seems the best bet. Using a mouse, you tend to lean to the opposite side of the arm that you are using to help keep the wrist in a position that can be moved during mouse movement...causing neck and shoulder pain. Use a track ball and most of the movement is in the fingers.
good luck

 

[DesignerMike]

I cranked up the "reaction speed" or the sensitivity and acceleration of the mouse too. It takes much less movement to get accross the screen, a little hard to get used to, and the I.T. guy will curse you while he tries to install some new software but that's life. Total mouse movement of about 1 in to move accross the 21" monitor. Combine this with the wrist pad my arm doesn't have to move at all. The spaceball cuts down on movement too.

 

[TheTick]

Mike:

I kinda went through that with the spaceball (when I had one). I started really ham-fisted and had the sensitivity cranked way down. After a while I habituated myself to using it at a higher sensitivity. It really does save "wear and tear" on one's extremities. Same is true for mouse (and for guitar).

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[HobieTCat]

Thanks for all the ideas,

I'll try not to use my wrist to move the mouse, I have not heard of that one yet. I do have my elbow supported, and that did help a lot, but I still get knots in my neck and shoulder(s). I've been fighting back pain in general since I was in high school, and been learning many techniques to keep from developing the pain. I think that other daily activities like driving and carrying a briefcase may be a factor also.

Anyone tried Trigger Point therapy or anything like it? That's what my doctor is telling me to do since I can't seem to totally prevent the problem, he says I should at least try to treat it. Sounds logical.

 

[ctopher]

A faster mouse helps

 

[empty]

Try a good Osteopath to get your back straightened out.
Not cheap but very effective.

 

[adaniel65]

I had this problem at one point while designing all day.
I found that if I lean forward in my chair it creates a lot of stress in my neck and shoulders.

I figured it out one day when I had a different chair that made me lay back in it and rest my head against the back of the seat.

Also, it helped to have my arm lay horizontal or just a little above ( meaning that my arm angled downward slightly away from me as it rests on the desk surface ).

These days I can design using Pro-E or SolidWorks for hours on end with no side effects whatsoever except the fact that I postpone bathroom breaks because I am so comfortable in my chair.

By the way, I use a Herman Miller chair. And yes, a quality chair does improve your comfort by a large margin.

Do yourself a favor and create a posture grid in Excel and rate all variations, i.e. hand, neck, arm, legs, feet, wrist angle, monitor position & distance, keyboard distance & position, type of mouse ( i.e., corded with ball, cordless with ball, optical with cord, optical cordless, etc. ) The optical cordless mouse has helped tremendously for me.

Also, you should have good eyesight to begin with. If you can't see well, it is automatic that you will lean into the screen to work. If this the case, then decrease screen resolution by on or two levels.

Good Luck! I know what you are going through.

 

[TheTick]

re: adaniel65 Also, you should have good eyesight to begin with. If you can't see well, it is automatic that you will lean into the screen to work.

I can't say enough good things about my PRIO glasses. They have helped eliminate 99+% of eye-strain headaches and shoulder strain for me. Believe me, I was gretting some crippling headaches and neck pain, sometimes so bad that I couldn't drive home from work. Glasses? Heck, yeah! Not just tinted glasses, either. You have to go to their web site and see.

http://www.prio.com

Even if you have 20/20 vision or wear contacts, you can benefit from using PRIO glasses.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[cadcoke5]

When I started having wrist problems with my right hand, I just switched mouse hands. I am left handed anyway, so I might have had an easier time than most, but it still took some time to get used to it.

I now use my left hand when I am at work, and my right hand at home. Another approach is to alternate between a mouse and a tablet, but that may not help a shoulder problem.

I don't think one kind of pointing device is much better than any other. The idea is to avoid using the same joint, the same way, over and over.

Joe

 

[badboggs]

About 3 months ago I was having bad pains in my right fingers and wrist. So I bought a trackball. But I didn't stop there. I use the trackball lefthanded. Sounds odd but I have found that you can type on the number keypad without moving your left hand off the ball. Now that I'm used to it I kind of like the setup. I still use a right handed mouse at home for other stuff. Funny thing is that I can't use the trackball with my right hand. I really suck with it.

That way you take all the stress of the right hand shoulder and neck.

Boggs

 

[Theophilus]

Being an ID guy, I'm often confronted with human factors and ergonomics to help minimize user strain in my product designs. Many of the posts in this thread are useful hints in this area.

Mouse speed should be so high you only need slight movement of your fingers to properly operate your pointer (takes practice). Eliminate the concentration of strain/movement required of single joints. I don't move my wrist while using my optical mouse.

Herman Miller makes some of the best-designed chairs (and desks, etc.) in the world. This truly helps. If you have a cheesy chair with arms that disappear as they approach the edge of your desk you might as well take the arms off--except, of course, that they are holding your cheesy chair together. These are no good. Get a chair with arms that reach your fore-arms.

This brings us to the problem of furniture fiting. Good arm rests often collide with the edge of your desk. I once saw a great product that is a fore-arm rest that clamps to the edge of the desk and swivels to allow normal movement of your arms while providing full gravitational support to remove the strain from your shoulder. You may still be able to find this thing in a good office-supply store or computer store--possibly by Targus or some similar company.

Doctors don't fix problems with drugs--they mask the symptoms. The problem in this area is in clenching muscles and causing skeletal and nerve strain. If you know a good chiropractor (hard to find in my area), you can get help from them. (I recommend guys who use the Gonstead method.) However, you must still fix the problem behind the symptoms of the clenched muscles by providing an adequate work environment for yourself. I find I often clench my shoulder and neck out of habit. After fixing your work environment, start practicing how to relax your shoulder and neck while working. (This actually takes practice most of the time.)

I use UV-blocking computer glasses even though I have 20-16 vision. In fact, this is a must if you want to keep your vision from degrading. These screens are terrible for eyes and office lighting such as flickering fluorescent isn't much better. I think I'll even check out the recommendations for the Prio glasses just to see what they offer.

One more thing I notice a lot of people doing wrong. Tilt your keyboard away from you--not toward you. Your fore-arm should stay somewhat parallel with the back of your hand while typing. If you jack your hand back to type, you're causing strain in your wrists for no reason. Get rid of the feet under your keyboard unless they're propping your keyboard away from you. I don't understand why the feet usually bias the keyboard into the worst position for typing except perhaps that you can see the keys better that way. (I've even put things under the front of my keyboard to accomplish this on older keyboards.) Try it and you'll see what I mean.

The general principals are more important than the specific ways you implement them. There are lots of ways. Reduce stress and strain any way you can.

Hope that helps.




Jeff Mowry
DesignHaus Industrial Design

http://www.designhaus-i-d.com

 

[HobieTCat]

Thanks for all the tips. It sounds like most of you have had success with the ergonomic path, that path reduced my problem but certainly did not eliminate it. I decided to buy a Pressure Pointer (they have a 30 day guarantee), since things like a maassage, rolling on a tennis ball or leaning into a door jam seem to ease the pain, this seems like a cheap thing to try. It should be here today or tomorrow.

Does anyone want hear about how it works? I'll post back if anyone is interested.