O.T. Anyone have "Mouse Shoulder"?

[HobieTCat]

Hello all,

Since I started working with SolidWorks (but applies to any software) I spend long hours on the computer and I have developed what my doctor is calling "Mouse Shoulder". A terrible pain in my shoulder/neck area. I was calling it a Pinched Nerve for a while. It's been a few years in the making and I have tried the Ergo Mouses, the Ergo Station with the correct arrangements of everything, Ergo Chairs and some other stuff I have since forgotten about. The Ergo stuff seems to help, but twice as good as agony is still only misery, and I was hoping for better than that. My doctor, a physical therapist says that I need to spend less time on the computer. Even though this is a Workers Comp issue, I'm not looking to take advantage of that.

My question is: Has anybody found a way to treat "Mouse Shoulder" in an effective way? The doc had a thing called a Theracane at his office, it felt OK, but seemed like I had to use the muscles that hurt to operate the thing. He had a picture of a thing called a Pressure Pointer, it looked like some kind of a foot powered Theracane. Has anyone used a Pressure Pointer or Theracane? Or anything else that seems to help. I'd like to get an hour long shoulder massage every day by someone named Inga or maybe Anna, I'll see what the boss says about funding that.

Thanks for any ideas!

 

[TateJ]

Here's something else to consider - if it's not too late:

http://www.naturalis.co.uk/bonger_massage.htm

BTW - this was just the first link that came up.
Have a look at these - here and other sites.
Then do like I did - buy some 1/2" dowels, 2 spongey rubber balls & some rubber cement - & build your own.
If I had a digital camera I'd take a picture.

tatej usfilter.com​

 

[TateJ]

I found the balls I used:

http://outdoor-recreation.aubuchonh..._ball_bats/special_league_baseball-816051.asp

I don't recall where I bought mine, but these are them.

tatej usfilter.com​

 

[MadMango]

I posted about this about 9-12 months ago, but couldn't find it, so this is a repost mostly.

I notice that too many people sit too low in thier chairs. You should sit with your thighs parallel to the ground. Also, I notice people tend to sit on the front 1/3 of thier chair, instead of fully supporting thier thighs on the chair.

Elbows should be supported, with fore arms parallel with your desk. Pull your mouse closer to you so you aren't reaching for it with your arm. That will cause stress in your shoulder.

Your monitor should be perpendicular to your field of view, meaning you might have to prop-up your monitor a few inches, or angle the screen up a bit.

For mouse options, I have been very happy with my Logetic Marble Mouse. I can control the trackball with my index and middle fingers, giving me great control. It's a bit odd using your thumb for LMB, but you pick it up fast. For RMB I use my ring finger. A nice thing about these types of pointing devices is that you are not required to move your arm or wrist. All the motion is done through your fingers.

Speaking of pointing devices, has anyone in our small community gone and purchsed an Inspector mouse form

http://www.dimentor.com

yet? I'm still trying to decide if its worth the $150-$200.

MadMango
"Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities."
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SBaugh]

MadMango,

Your suggestions are very good MadMango for short to average height people, but what about us tall people? My chair is as high as it will go (I have to stop early in my chair, because the keyboard rest hangs below the desk). So my legs are not quite parallel to my chair. My monitor is a 22" monster so I don't have much trouble seeing it, but I still hump over because I'm so tall. I have a natural keyboard and the Logitech Trackman Marble Wheel. Those 2 items help me tremendously for shoulder, elbow and wrist pain...isn't much I can do about my back and neck. Yes I have a High back chair, but sit over the top by about a full heads length. The best thing I can do is lean back and work...hopefully I won't need to sit upright very often. I only sit up when I type in the NG's because my laptop is just to my left of me.... maybe that's why my back hurts I spend too much time here .


Inspector mouse:
If I remember right I asked the AE's here and they agreed it was neat looking but bit very practical. They said it was cumbersome to use.

I'm sure once you got over the transition of switching to a new mouse you might like it, but that's a change you would have to take. If you do get it, let us know how you like it or dislike like.

Regards,


Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

 

[MadMango]

[blue]Scott[/blue], I'm by no means tall (5'10&quot but even I had to raise my keyboard just over an 1" to keep my forearms parallel after I raised my chair. Some folks where I work have to do the same thing with thier monitors. I guess they found a use for those old What's New manuals for SW.

Many people that had keyboard trays have moved their keyboards to the desk, and have converted those trays to "junk drawers". I don't have any solutions for you corn-fed monsters that top out at 6'4".

MadMango
"Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities."
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SBaugh]

I guess they found a use for those old What's New manuals for SW.

Well if 6'4" is a monster , then what am I? I stand 6'7"....maybe [robocop]



I have no room on top my desk to move my keyboard to the top...Monitor takes all that space.

Best Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

 

[TateJ]

2x4's work great for lifting the desk just high enough for your middle drawer to clear your quads.
Then you can hike-up that chair.

On a slightly different subject... Have any of y'all ever worked standing up?
My favorite office - to date - was the end room of a double-wide trailer.
I had one of those old Mayline drafting tables with the electric foot-pedal for lift and the lever for tilting the table.
My monitor was at the top/back and keyboard & mouse in front.
Plenty of roome for drawings and krap.
I kept it tilted 10=/- degrees and worked sitting a while... then stepped on the pedal, cranked up the tunes, and worked standing for a while.
It was great!
No back/neck pain at all - I could very much vary my work posture.
I've considered getting a drafting stool and lifting my desk to drafting table height - so I could get close to Nervana again.

tatej usfilter.com​

 

[TateJ]

SBaugh...
Pull your desk away from the wall & let the a$$-end of your monitor hang over.
It seems a little odd at first - what with all that space behind your desk and all - but you'll be a rebel & gain the respect of your peers... plus a little real estate for your keyboard and mouse

tatej usfilter.com​

 

[gandytable]

It is simple to make a desk for the keyboard and mouse. I made one similar to the old desk that I had in school, but without the seat. You know the design, shaped like a fat 7 for right handed people. Could even make it an upside down U for those two handed designers. Just cut a sheet of plywood the shape that you need and put some legs under it. I happened to have an old desk with adjustable legs and I used those legs. The keyboard sits on it and you can move it relative to the monitor and your chair relative to it. Your forearm then sits on the armrest part of the top to control the mouse which sits beside the keyboard. I have some foam rubber for my forearm and elbow; and one of those super duper gel mouse pads to rest my wrist. My homemade desk is kind of ugly, but it works great for me.

 

[SBaugh]

I can't push the monitor back any more because the shelves are in the way and the shelves are what pretty much hold the top of the desk togther. I would show you a picture but I can't find it.


but you'll be a rebel & gain the respect of your peers

I have no peers around me... I sit here allll by myself - Ahhh the agony of it all.

I would make my own table, but I have a few more things on my plate to do, so I don't have that kind of time to put into a desk.

Regards,



Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

 

[StarrRider]

HobieTCat

I have to agree with Scott Baugh

A couple of years ago, I got a little angry and managed to break a couple knuckles on my right hand. The doctor put a cast on it that wouldn’t allow me to hold onto a mouse. I am sure that I looked very comical – trying to spear my mouse whenever I needed to use it. I went to my friendly computer store and tried everything they had and eventually purchased a Logitech Cordless Trackman trackball for about $60. It allowed me to continue working which was all that I cared about. After the cast came off I continued using the track ball for a while - but then I unplugged it intending to take it home and use it on my home system. A couple of days later the low level pains in my neck and arm started bothering me again.

I couldn’t understand what was going on – they for hadn’t bothered me for several months but now they were back. I spotted the track ball still sitting on my desk and hooked it back up thinking that it couldn’t make any difference. A few days later most of the pain was gone and I purchased a second one on my home system. I now own 4 of them, I even have one for my laptop.

My feet and lower back bothered me as well. I wasn’t aware of it – but my wife told me that I always sat hunched over the keyboard like a vulture over its prey. I started paying attention to my posture and realized that besides that, my legs were bent under me most of the time and that at least one ankle was actually resting on the floor instead of my feet. I stand 6’ 0” so I don’t consider myself all that tall, but I swear that most desks and chairs are designed for short people – nobody taller than 5’ 6” allowed.

I didn’t have much control over the furniture that I had at work, but I was able to trade for a higher chair. That made the desk too short so I added a couple of 2x4s under it and that helped a lot. Unfortunately, I had a cheap desk and chair at home where I spend a lot of time. I tried raising my chair but at the max height it was still too low for me. Even so, that caused problems because every time I got up the arms of the chair hit the bottom of the desk and made my monitor dance (the book is entitled “How to destroy a $300 Monitor with a $60 Chair” by Duhh). I eventually threw out both the desk and the chair and started over again.

I really glad that I did. I picked a chair that actually fit me and allows good posture. Then I found a desk that was tall enough for the chair to fit under it at the highest level. This desk is on wheels and has a raised platform for the monitor. I love the wheels – but the desk is exactly what I needed. The center of the monitor is at eye level, my arms rest on the desk, and my posture is much better.

The best part of all this is that I can work for 10 or 12 hours without experiencing a fourth of the pain that I used to have every day.

Lee

Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

 

[alol]

This is what works for me, (aka the SOCK SOLUTION):
1. chair with back support, that you can lay back at about 15%. Arms can be fixed or adjustable but, as many others have noted, elbows MUST be supported.
Note: the old Steelcase secretary chair with sprung back is actually more comfortable than the new $500 "ergonomic" ones.
2. Put OLD SOCK over chair arm, for comfort, so elbow can slide.
3. Keyboard drawer should be....
a. Flat
b. wide enough for keybaord AND full size mouse pad,
(many aren't wide enough)
c. 1" higher than armrest (OK, 25 mm.)
4. Keep mouse wrist warm. In winter I wear an OLD SOCK - thumb goes through heel hole, cut off toes for fingers.
5. Screen center about 2'' (50mm) below eye line.
6. Tell yourself THIS IS FUN! Maybe you are just too tense.
CARPAL TUNNEL note: I cured mine 10 years ago by using some vitamin (B?) for a couple of weeks, also, I stopped playing minesweeper.

 

[SBaugh]

wide enough for keybaord AND full size mouse pad,
(many aren't wide enough)

Perfect reason for a Tracknball!

I wish you could remember which vitamin it was - I need some!!

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help

 

[alol]

"... blind placebo controlled studies…the University of Texas...successfully treated hundreds of patients suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome with Vitamin B6..."

http://www.beat-your-health-condition.com/carpal-tunnel-syndrome.html

PS - also good for pre menstrual tension!

 

[TheTick]

Your workstation (+ desk, chair, etc.) and your mattress: these will account for where you spend well over half your adult life if you remain in this field. Make sure both are not causing discomfort and damage.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[TateJ]

I'm telling ya - if you'd just beat yourself about the head & shoulders with a set of bongers - or have someone else do it - your whole outlook on life will change. I will occasionally bong myself - while thinking thru a design problem. So far no one has walked in on me doing it - but it's just a matter of time. I don't care - I can't help it -it's worth the risk. If bongin myself is wrong, then I don't wanna be right.

tatej usfilter.com​

 

[JOHNHARVEY]

Had the same problem, changing mouse speed so that the pointer would traverse the entire screen area wuth just the movement of the fingers is what solved the problem, that and letting my elbow rest on the arm of the chair. as long as you don't have to move your wrist, forearm and arm/shoulder the the pain will go away.

jh

 

[JNR]

Some really good comments, particulalry from TateJ. Personally I have been using computers many hours of the day for many years - much if not most of it on CAD with mouses (or is it mice?). I have experienced problems from time to time. I would say that moving your srceen back far enough away from you for comfortable viewing, checking you eyesight/glasses situation and having your arm fully supported from the elbow down and level with the mouse pad surface so your wrist is not bent were the most effective in solving these problems. A good chair and good posture are definitley essential. I also have the corner/wrap around type desk arrangement and put the monitor back in the corner (avoids moving the desk out). My chair is adjusted so that the arm supports mine and is essentially level with the mouse pad. It can take a bit of fiddling and experiement but it is worth it. My arm is basically in a very comfortable and natural "at rest" position. Moving you entire arm rather than your wrist and setting the mouse sensitivity so you don't have to move it great distances also help tremendously. Mine moves the cursor entire screen width with out 3 to 3.5 inches of movement.

3/4 of all the Spam produced goes to Hawaii - shame that's not true of SPAM also.......