OMG ... we're running out of O2 ! 1

[rb1957]

from AW&ST, US airplanes, civil and military, bought (= burnt) 25 billion (US) gallons of fuel in 2008. using round numbers that's 100 billion liters. assume an AFR of 12, so that fuel combined with 1200 billion liters of air. so 240 billion liters of O2 were consumed ... gone.

forget the CO2 produced, each gallon of gas consumes 10 liters of O2 (in nice round numbers, easy for a politician to remember).

we're doomed ... well, of course we are ... at best 1 person has made it out (and come back to tell us) compared with well over 1 billion fails (if they made it out, but didn't come back to tell us, then they don't count !) but what about psychics (communicating with spirits, = people who made it out) ?

 

[cranky108]

So if understand this right, even hydrogen powered cars should be taxed on the consumption of O2? (How short sighted is that)?

Yes we know a gallon is not a good measure of a vapor.

So what type of device will be used to measure CO2 produced, and what type will be used to measure O2 consumed? Can we trust it to be accurate? Can we trust the gasoline mixture to be a true measure of carbon? How do we account for the oxygen in the ethonol? And because H2O is also produced, won't we see rising ocean levels?

 

[btrueblood]

Glad you brought that up, Cranky. The hydrogen economy may do worse to the planet than the CO2 cycle it proposes to replace. H2 gas, being so light, will actually bleed off into intersolar space over time. Right now that is prevented by keeping all our H2 supply bound up in hydrocarbons and water...but start splitting water into H2 gas, and (inevitably) leak it away to the atmosphere before burning it back to H2O...and we're gonna be awfully dry here. Sometime. Maybe. A billion years or so from now.

 

[CastMetal]

I think concern about our planets CO2 level is like worrying about wind farms draining the energy out of the prevailing winds. The fact that we comprehend the mechanism does not mean we understand the repercussions.

"Comprehension is not understanding. Understanding is not wisdom. And it is wisdom that gives us the ability to apply what we know, to our real world situations."

 

[flash3780]

So if understand this right, even hydrogen powered cars should be taxed on the consumption of O2? (How short sighted is that)?

I never understood how hydrogen powered vehicles was supposed to solve global warming, since the exhaust gas is H20 - another greenhouse gas.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Put a tax on O2 - everything else has one.

 

[KENAT]

Yep, especially GE profits, oh hang on...

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[cranky108]

I'm not to concerned about losing H2 to outer space. All of our atmosphear will end up there at some point.
I would be more concerned about the losses in producing H2 (Just guessing but 50% seems like a good number). And I would estimate the same losses in battery storage, and recovery in electric cars.

The issue with CO2 levels is not so much we use so much. It appears to me that the options, electric cars, mass transportation, etc, just isen't cost effective.
After all airplains are more efficent than cars on a per passenger basis, and the airlines make money at it (sometimes).

The thing I can seem to factor is the equasion between disconfort and dollars.

 

[thinkfree09]

What we need is a total independence from using O2. We need to focus our energy on the next generation of Aircrafts, automobiles, and etc using environmental energy such as sunlight in order to generate more clean power. This will allow for us not to depend on foreign oil...

 

[ewh]

We shoulda been born plants.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[cranky108]

If we don't use O2 in aircraft, cars, etc. then all these vehicles will become heaver, and less efficent. The fact that we only have to carry fuel, and not oxidzer for that fuel, just makes the vehicles lighter.
And in fact gasoline has a much energy density than many other alternitives, just makes it that much attrictive, even with the losses.

A better bet is look for efficies to the existing technology. Get rid of energy sucking air-conditing, cargo racks, automatic transmissions, spare tires, radios, emmission controls, etc...

 

[btrueblood]

"What we need is a total independence from using O2."

Don't hold your breath

 

[KENAT]

"Get rid of energy sucking air-conditing"

Hmm, when the outside temps in my part of the world reach 115°F+ I'd like to keep my AC please.

Unless you want to pay for me to relocate somewhere more temperate where AC (or for that matter heating) is rarely needed. Santa Barbara would be nice thanks.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[jmw]

Look, I don't care what they say about O2, I'm just worried about beer.
I dread the day they decide that beer is the cause of global warming due to the CO2 released. We need to promote the idea of carbon sequestration in beer. That when the beer is drunk the body traps the CO2 and that beer is good. (where does the CO2 come from or go to? we don't need the truth here, it hasn't appeared anywhere in the AGW argument, we just need something quasi plausible the great unwashed will believe.
It helps that the great unwashed like beer.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[TED7]

JMW you have hit it right on the head. Lets just hope they go that way and dont enforce flat beer.

Will
Sheffield UK
Designer of machine tools - user of modified screws

 

[SnTMan]

Of course there is Guinness and Boddingtons, they use more N2 that CO2, to my understanding. Problem avoided.

How does O2 figure in? No idea.

Regards,

Mike

 

[rb1957]

isn't CO2 produced during fermentation ?

damnit, the "TT"s were right, and we're all doomed to a sober reflection of our past sins ... sigh

 

[jmw]

rb1957 that's just the kind of irresponsible comment that the eco-warriors will pick up on and claim is the real cause of AGW.... please limit yourself to saying such things as "beer is at worst, carbon neutral, and since the CO2 is not emitted by the drinkers, not all of it anyway, it is a carbon sink."
It doesn't have to be true, truth has nothing to do with any environmental argument these days, it just has to be effective.

By the way, if beer (sorry) CO2 were so bad for us, beer drinkers would be dying like flies.
Ergo CO2/beer is good for us.
Bring on GW whatever the cause.....
Actually, I suspect even eco-warriors like a bevy now and again so perhaps that is why beer is (temporarily) safe. We're in real trouble if there is a rising TT Greenie movement out there.

PS what's the deal on diesel?
Why is diesel, all of a sudden, the wrong kind of fuel and what does that do for bio-diesel? All of a sudden diesel is the arch polluter and while for many years the UK was unique in charging more for diesel than petrol, eroding much of the advantage in choosing diesel and why diesel had the lowest penetration of the Uk market compared to European markets where diesel was cheaper than petrol and diesel car sales high, now they are all getting in on the high tax act.
I suspect it is a bit of a con; various governments have realised there are too many diesel owners out there to significantly affect diesel sales so they can safely follow the UK example and charge more tax on diesel without killing the goose.
Plus it makes bio-diesel more competitively priced..... but how is bio-diesel going to be less polluting in use than ordinary diesel?
Oh, I get it, perhaps this is a propaganda campaign to kill bio-diesel because they've suddenly realised it contributes more CO2 than it saves?

The thing is, if they can change their stance on diesel almost overnight, beer isn't safe.

PS here is a goodie from the anti diesel brigade:

Ever heard of pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis? It's not just the longest word in English, but also the name of a lung disease contracted by inhaling too much silica dust. You won't find much of that substance in diesel emissions but you will find it in the road dust kicked up by big diesel burning trucks.

Yeah and how is banning diesel going to solve that one? Will the trucks magically disappear?



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[CastMetal]

The mythbusters did it, so why can't they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIPprUxFap8

Many people start to sing a different tune once they realize environmental ideals have a real world effect on their wallet.



Comprehension is not understanding. Understanding is not wisdom. And it is wisdom that gives us the ability to apply what we know, to our real world situations

 

[cranky108]

Some of us live in an area that rarely exceeds 85 degrees. So AC is optional. But earth sheltered homes tend to stay cooler than stick built homes.

When real word cuts normally turn people off.

 

[engineer4fun]

Only a matter of time before the government starts regulating our O2 consumption and creation. They will even control the air we breathe! :-O

Designer and compression springs enthusiast

http://www.coilingtech.com/compression-springs.html