Opinion poll - lug nut installation

[KY bluegrass]

Hello wise friends. This is NOT an attempt to reignite any old debates on the subject, instead I am taking a poll. I have read many threads on several boards on the topic, and there is no consensus. People of all disciplines have strong arguments for each way.

The question: Installation of lug nuts- dry, oil, never seize, or some other lubricant? This poll is ONLY for steel nuts on steel studs, automotive/light truck/trailer sized. Plain stuff, no special coatings or galvanized or anything; and we are only talking about threads, not the tapered seat.

It was actually an old thread on this board that prompted this poll. Many good arguments were expressed, and I would like to get an idea of how many favor each approach. I am posting this on Agriculture, Machinist, Engineering and related boards. If there is interest, I will start a new thread on each board with the poll results. Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[mfgenggear]

Lol if it works don't change it.
It is known tire shops most of the time over torque lugnuts with impact wrenches.

As an OG I can tell you every vehicle I have owned when removing lug nuts and tires.
When I was a poor kid I used a cheater bar mechanical advantage. I did not own a torque wrench. And would torque by hand until the
Lug nut fell it started to stretch or flex. And it was done. Never had a mishap.

Now I use an impact wrench torque wrench and a torque wrench. Dry no type of lube.

 

[3DDave]

First - don't post duplicates. Second, this isn't a forum for polls.

If you first spend some time researching how threaded fasteners work it will be far more beneficial to you. Different circumstances benefit from different approaches so there is no answer that is the best answer.

I'd recommend boltscience.com Start with https://www.boltscience.com/pages/basics1.htm

 

[mfgenggear]

Except the problem with lug nuts is the tough environment. Open air, moisture, dirt sand rocks. And more. Unless there is repairs required. Maintenance. We get stuck out in the middle of no where with over torqued rusty lug nut.

 

[KY bluegrass]

I apologize if I have posted something that is not allowed (and I wasn't aware it was duplicated.) Moderators, please delete if that is the case. There was such a good discussion of the different approaches in the old thread (2008 I think), each with a good explanation of the reason for that approach, that I thought I would ask in 2025. Again, sorry.

Thanks, mfgenggear for your input.

 

[3DDave]

Most important - provide a link to the discussion you feel is important.

What do you mean "it was duplicated."? You are the one claiming you will make duplicates. Don't make duplicates.

" I am posting this on Agriculture, Machinist, Engineering and related boards. If there is interest, I will start a new thread on each board with the poll results."

 

[Artisi]

this should have been in the student forum.

 

[TugboatEng]

Lubrication doesn't make fasteners loosen.

 

[SWComposites]

What is the purpose of the “poll”?
What problem are you trying to solve?

For what its worth, in 50+ years I have never seen anyone put any kind of lube or other substance on auto wheel studs or nuts.

 

[mfgenggear]

Some times if I have stubborn lug nuts with corrosion, I spray wD-40, let it set, then torch it lightly. Then loosen it.

 

[TugboatEng]

I am a proponent of anti-seize on lug nuts. They come new coated but that coating wears out. The factory spec is for new nuts and studs.

 

[KY bluegrass]

Link to the original thread: https://www.eng-tips.com/threads/use-of-anti-seize-on-vehicle-lug-nuts.229718/page-3#posts

October 2008.

Sorry again, I didn't understand what you meant by duplicates. I thought you meant duplicates on the same board.

 

[XR250]

If you lube it, how much do you reduce the installation torque from a factory dry recommendation?

 

[rb1957]

isn't that the key thing ... to maintain as the original designer intended. If the original design used lube, then you should; if not then you "shouldn't". There could be sensible reasons why the design chose to (or not to) lube; are these reasons still valid ?? I'm willing to bet that you'll say you can't discuss with the original designer, then you're stuff with your ideas based on your best practice.

 

[mfgenggear]

this is a great discussion. OEM does not all ways use the best practice. but what makes it easier for initial assembly.
for example on early ford 460 Cid. it had a bolt in the water pump that went through a
water passage. which failed upon disassembly due to corrosion.
lug nuts depending on the design and we're the vehicle is used. in southern California at low altitude. Will last for ever. in an area with lots of rain , ice and snow. were they prep the roads with what ever they use now, use to be salts. is highly corrosive. literally destroying a vehicle.

 

[KY bluegrass]

Good points, both of you. In most cases (in my experience, anyway), lube or no lube is not specified in the op/maintenance manuals. A notable exception was provided me by a friend who showed me a photo of a Dexter trailer axle hub with "LIGHTLY GREASE STUDS" stamped on it. At least we know what the original designer intended there!
Mfgenggear, you have touched on another part of the original issue, that being the effects of environment and such, especially since the nuts will almost always be reinstalled and not replaced with new fasteners.
Just FYI, of all the responses I received (many were phone calls and such), only 12% assembled dry; 22% Oil, 41% Never Seize, 14% Grease and 11% Other (usually spray of some sort.) With that in mind, perhaps savvy manufacturers could include suggested torque values for both lubricated and non lubricated assembly, unless there was a compelling reason to go with one or the other for design reasons. I think it would be a lot easier for them to measure the stud tension in the design lab and pass the torque information on to the end user, especially if 88% of end users lube the threads anyway.

Thank you for taking time to respond.

 

[3DDave]

Which of the hundreds of different lubricants should they list on the placard? Different lubricants and anti-seize compounds and thread locking compounds, used to exclude water, give different results. Should the chart include if it is impact driven or torque-stop-slow torque? What if the contacting face of the nut is also coated with the extra material? Does this increase the chances that liability will be extended to the maker of the applied material if they allow their product to be mentioned?

What is savvy about increasing their own effort to screen coating materials and increasing the liability surface?

If they aren't doing it already, it's not because they are uninformed about ad hoc user selections.

 

[mfgenggear]

It should specify a suitable anti seize or Lubricant. Just as transmission , power steering, engine oil, differential requires.
Lug nuts should be no different.

Some lock nuts I will use a medium strength thread locker.
Like locktite , such as motor mounts, alternator, power steering bolts and nuts
To prevent loosening from vibration.
Spark plugs and intake and exhaust bolts I will use anti seize. Because it will sieze from heat and corrosion. Which will strip out, or fail.

 

[mfgenggear]

Torqueing any thing aluminum is very very touchy. Look at it cross eyed and it will
Cross thread or strip out from over Torqueing. I had ARS aluminum high compression heads. The would not give Torque requirements which sucked.

 

[TugboatEng]

Lug nuts are lubricated when new. They are coated. That coating wears out. You'll be fine using anti-gall and factory specs.