Opportunity at a Small Company 7

[pittguy12]

I just got a job offer from a small company...a very small company (<12). I always saw the 'next step' at a bigger company for the opportunities it might give me to develop as an engineer. Having looked at this position though, I think an even better opportunity for development might be going smaller because I will have the chance to 1) practice closer to the field I want to be in, 2) become a major player in a small operation, 3) take on more diverse roles without having to jump positions or wait for the corporate train to get moving.

My biggest concern though is what the future sustainability is of small firms. They seem incredibly busy now and have done quite well over the last 10-15 years (including record years during the recession). Yet, I still have concerns over the vulnerability of a place this small.

I appreciate everyones thoughts.

 

[berkshire]

You can be a big fish in a small pond ( Problem is small ponds dry up.), or a smaller fish in a bigger pond with sharks.
Your choice.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[zdas04]

First, get the idea that there are more opportunities at a big firm out of your mind. The bigger the firm, the more the specialization. I know a guy in a big firm who does nothing except run pipeline stress analysis. Been running Caesar models for the last 15 years and could mail them in, but he puts on a tie every morning and comes to work to analyze the next piece of pipe.

At a small firm, everyone does a range of stuff. All the way down to my one-man firm where everything that has MuleShoe Engineering on it is my work. That is excessive, but in a 12 man firm you are not going to be specializing much.

Also in bigger firms you have to deal with outrageous rules. I'm working with a big firm in Australia right now that has a rule that no one can upload a file bigger than 10 MB without case-by-case approval of the IT manager. They needed to send me 1,000 files and about 1/3 of them were bigger than 10 MB so they had to get his approval for each one. There is no way that they were not going to give me the data I needed so this guy's "approval" was just pro forma--it still took 7 days to get a 2 hour job done.

As to stability, since I retired from BP in 2003 my one-man firm has made amazing profits every quarter while BP has had at least 6 manpower reductions in engineering over the same period. You'd think that production companies laying engineers off would be a boom for consultants, but it hasn't worked out that way. Every time the production companies let people go the consultants found that there were fewer people to pass them work and they had matching layoffs lagging about 3 months. It seems counter intuitive until you realize that company engineers have evolved to project managers who just pass engineering work to consultants (for the most part, I know there is the occasional company engineer who does his own work, but they are rare).

David

 

[jmw]

No one can predict the future.
A company that is doing well even in recession seems as good a bet as any.
In a big company what survives is the company. You don't necessarily get any better security there than in a small company.
Big companies tend to react to recession in a formulaic way. They tend to focus increasingly on the end of the month figures and less on the long term. That means that they focus on sales rather than R&D and they maintain margins by cutting staff.
The strength of the big companies is often illusory.

Being a little fish in a big pond is risky. The sharks see you but management don't - unless you are adept at self promotion.
Not saying the big fish small pond is better or worse just that there is no security anywhere.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Metalhead97]

pittguy12,

Just because you work in a large firm does not. I repeat, does not mean job security. In many large corporation like GE and UTC work groups are treated like small companies.

metalhead

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Can't add much to this discussion - all very good. I have always liked smaller firms but now I work for a BIG one. Benefits seem better and I run a small group with very little supervision - never have even met my boss - he is 700 miles away - but have had 13 bosses in 15 years, So we do our thing - keep people happy - get my paycheck and benefits and go home and sleep well at night - usually.

It just depends.......

 

[dvd]

One can learn much more at a smaller company. There is rapid feedback on what works and what doesn't. Risk is usually shared better. Leadership can make or break the place. Make sure that the owner is a calm and sane individual.

 

[SLTA]

What DVD said. I've worked at several small firms, and if the people are hard to work with or crazy, then it's a miserable experience. Can you talk to anyone who used to work there and find out their (obviously somewhat skewed) ideas on the people?

 

[patprimmer]

No matter where you work. The most important aspect is your immediate boss and the company/department head. Cultures flow from the top down.

I agree with everything David said. I usually do unless it's politics. ;-)

DVD and slta are also spot on.

The larger the company, normally the more rigid the rules. Smaller is more likely to quickly adjust a policy to suit individual circumstances.

Regards
Pat
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[pittguy12]

Great feedback everyone.

I think I am just so used to the medium/bigger sized company and all of the intertia that propels them forward, the idea of a more free work environment that is much more dependent on my individual effort makes me unsure. At the same time, it's definately a challenge that excites me and I may find I really thrive in that type of environment.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

 

[tz101]

I don't think there is an automatic equation that says smaller or larger organizations are the perfect road map to career success.

Here is some of my personal experience:

Smaller organizations are, generally speaking, more personable, i.e family oriented. Just be aware that there are positives and negatives that come with that arrangement though. Sure, the owner/boss tries to come across as caring (not always true in reality either), but there is little potential for upward growth because small organizations are mostly flat in structure, plus everyone knows everyone's business, personal or otherwise. Most often, you are asked to juggle three jobs at any given time because the owner likes the place small and doesn't want to expand too much, and it can be stressful. Smaller organizations are also nice in that there are "perks" not offered by the larger companies. For instance, my wife needed to take a personal loan without paying interest and her company owner was generous and obliged. You will mostly never get that benefit in larger corporations.

Larger organizations are generally easier to "hide" in, meaning that you can blend in with the crowd if that is your desire, but are also largely very uncaring environments. If you need special consideration to take a day off this week for a personal emergency, it is many times difficult to get without proper forms being submitted to corporate HR, etc. One positive point to larger organizations is normally greater opportunity for upward advancement, if that is your goal (and sometime even if it is not it can be forced upon you). The biggest downside I saw to a corporate environment is that you are mostly treated as a "number." Not much caring, and lots of politics and competition among peers.

Where do you go? It is up to each individual to make that choice based on his/her personal goals and objectives.

Best wishes.

TZ

 

[KENAT]

On the other side from tz101, if you end up in a small company with a rogue boss, they tend to have freer reign to cause havoc without the typical large company structure to at least slightly moderate it.

I loved working for a smaller company, but it still had its own pros & cons.

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[jmw]

In a small company you may find nepotism is a killer. Just check to see how many of the boss's family have senior management roles and don't neglect those who married in to the boss's family.

On the other hand good small companies are often more capable of making decisions and making them quickly. This is because the senior management are intimately involved in the day to day running of the business and can readily assess the opportunities and risks of what is proposed.
In big companies any decisions involving spending money are often taken in the parent company who may have forgotten they even own your bit of it.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[tz101]

Forgot to mention nepotism in my original post. It is rampant in smaller companies, and if you can live with that, then great. I will just warn you to use your words wisely until you have been at a smaller company for at least a year or so, long enough to find out who is married to whom, and whose grandson the company owner's is. That is indeed a major drawback to smaller organizations because too often the assumed lanes of career growth are blocked by the owner's brother, sister, mother, wife, etc. In other words, if you have your eyes on the corner office and it is already occupied by the owner's son, then just forget about it completely.

Often, I think the best setup is going into business for yourself, and then you don't put up with most of the garbage.

 

[jmw]

Of course, the great thing about small companies, even family companies, is that if they are good and have a nice niche then some big company will hunt them down and buy them up.
Prospects can be good then.
Of course, there is one weak thing in small companies, they tend to over-value themselves. The smart ones build a growth factor into a sale so as the company grows they will have even more money to look forward to.

Avoid any company that might do a management buyout. Companies owned by big corporations where they don't really compliment the core vision. These are likely to be sold on or bought out. Its like living in an artificial depression zone. There is no security.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[tz101]

Its like living in an artificial depression zone. There is no security. "

I haven't really seen any company, big or small, where job security is even remotely there in the past ten years, so what's the difference?

But I agree, whenever a potential buyout looms (and you know about it ahead of time) be extra careful. Being left in divisional limbo is never a good thing as larger corporations gobble up the smaller companies.

If you are interviewing at a company that is getting ready to be bought out, ask lots of questions ahead of time.

 

[Forensic74]

I liked working at a small firm except for the terrible benefits. Pay special attention to health insurance if you are thinking of having kids. Many of the small firms dont/cant carry maternity coverage and you cant buy it separately....so you pay out of pocket, not cool.

 

[JedClampett]

With the downsides of big companies there are some upsides. Personnel Practice Manuals can be used to the employee's benefit, defining hours, compensation for overtime, acceptable dress, vacation, etc. There's transition plans, evaluation systems, standard raise periods. You don't know how much you appreciate those things until you don't have them. You're not as closely governed by the owner's whims on travel, training, vacation, and many other things.
Just because it's a family doesn't automatically mean a big happy family.

 

[patprimmer]

I think it is pretty obvious in family companies that it is much more likely family members will get priority for promotion to senior management if that is what you want, however the wider experience gained will serve you well for a management role later in a larger company.

In any company it is not wise to back stab others as you never know who is close to who no matter where you are. Also it gets you a reputation as being a weasle who can't be trusted.

Re advice about medical. That is a uniquely USA thing. Most other developed countries have a level of state support for health care and/or affordable private insurance you can take with you and is not tied to your employer, so that you don't lose your house if you lose your job or if your boss does not insure you then you get sick. I don't think the OP stated where he is located.

Regards
Pat
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[Forensic74]

I was thinking pittsburgh....