Opportunity at a Small Company 7

[pittguy12]

I just got a job offer from a small company...a very small company (<12). I always saw the 'next step' at a bigger company for the opportunities it might give me to develop as an engineer. Having looked at this position though, I think an even better opportunity for development might be going smaller because I will have the chance to 1) practice closer to the field I want to be in, 2) become a major player in a small operation, 3) take on more diverse roles without having to jump positions or wait for the corporate train to get moving.

My biggest concern though is what the future sustainability is of small firms. They seem incredibly busy now and have done quite well over the last 10-15 years (including record years during the recession). Yet, I still have concerns over the vulnerability of a place this small.

I appreciate everyones thoughts.

 

[patprimmer]

I really could not guess.

We have a town called Pittown.

Maybe he works in or on pits?

Regards
Pat
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[lacajun]

I was thinking University of Pittsburgh graduate.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[tz101]

Just to clarify:

When I spoke about using one's words wisely at a smaller family run business until you have been there awhile, I was not necessarily referring to backstabbing or undermining others. That is not my style.

No, I am talking about general suggestions for improving things, ways to do things better, etc. You see that some family run organizations I have seen have been generally prideful and arrogant. They were not open to better ways of doing things, and if they wanted your opinion, they would give it to you. Now, get your nose back to the grindstone.

What I have seen is that these types of businesses are looking for their own definition of "team payer" and that often involves keeping your mouth shut, even if they are doing things in very poor ways. Mentioning improvement ideas to family members unknowingly can get you on the short list. Family members talk back and forth, you know.

I have seen that suggestions for improvement are generally better accepted in larger organizations. Less family pride to get in the way.

 

[patprimmer]

I stick by my statement of the 18th at 12.21

No matter where you work. The most important aspect is your immediate boss and the company/department head. Cultures flow from the top down.

I have found arrogance and pride equally distributed across companies irrespective of size or position in the management chain.

Heck I have seen production line workers who think they know more about engineering than the engineer. I have also seen engineers who dismiss the people who have to actually work with the design often leading to the attitude in the production line worker.

I have seen the same where you could substitute engineer and manager for production line worker and engineer.

One advantage in small companies is that there are less layers so there is a better chance of good communication. There is also a better chance of management knowing everyone better and seeing through impostors and troublemakers but also recognising genuine involvement and contribution. There is also a general lack of highly specialised skills including various management skills.

Regards
Pat
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[Forensic74]

tz101, man you hit it on the head. Thinking more about my time at the small company, I totally agree with the description "pride and arrogant". The owner had to control everything and especially when it came to nuts and bolts of operations, like the computer system, it was a joke.

I remember the owner ran the shared office drive (project files, ACAD, etc) from a USB hard drive attached to his computer because he didn't trust anyone. He would get pissed if we suggested ways to speed up the system, but would rather everyone waste hours per day waiting for ACAD drawings to load up or save. Man that was frustrating and probably one of the reasons the company wasn't that profitable to pay us benefits.

I've seen pride and arrogance in the larger company I've worked for, but its diluted by the good people and at least I couldn't see it as a direct attack on my paycheck/benefits.

 

[moon161]

>>I remember the owner ran the shared office drive (project files, ACAD, etc) from a USB hard drive attached to his computer because he didn't trust anyone. He would get pissed if we suggested ways to speed up the system, but would rather everyone waste hours per day waiting for ACAD drawings to load up or save. <<

Close, but actually not the craziest thing I've seen. Stupid tho. Hardly locked down at all.

 

[pittguy12]

Just getting back from the weekend...I wasn't around a computer all weekend so couldn't keep up with the thread.

One, Pittguy is a reference to where I grew up...outside the Pittsburgh (PA) area. Left a long time ago but part of steeler/pittsburgh nation for life...so there you go.

Good points continue. I definately understand the point about the family business and ego/pride getting in the way. I think it will be OK on this front as I have met with the 'guy' in charge several times and get none of the impression he gets in the way too much. In fact, it almost seems as though he is looking for someone to share the business with in this position. Plus, none of his kids are involved in anything related to engineering so I don't think there will be much to worry about from that aspect. It's almost as though he is looking for a protege.

As far as the pride part of it goes...I have that now in my medium sized firm. I guess it would be concentrated more in a small firm but definately not something that is localized to a smaller place by any means!

My wife and I talked a lot about this and decided we were going to give it a try. We decided we would regret it more to not even try then to try and fail. At worst, I will end up with good experience more closely related to the field I want to be in and at best, I could end up being a big player in a small operation. Most of what annoys me about what I do now is directly related to being part of a medium/bigger firm. Sure, I might be trading some misery for different misery but at least I have to try!

Plus, we are young and have a few years left to recover from one sort of risky career move before we start picking out our hammocks on the beach somewhere for retirement.

 

[tz101]

@MainMan10

You have obviously experienced some small company shenanigans similar to what I have. I agree that there is pride and arrogance at larger organizations, but it does not normally overtake every aspect of daily operations. One arrogant owner or wife of the VP at a smaller company can make life extremely miserable for everyone around. At least in larger operations, that can be tempered by going through alternative chains of command.

Like I said in my original post on this thread, no perfect organization to work for, just trying to present all aspects to the OP that I have experienced over the years.

 

[patprimmer]

but it does not normally overtake every aspect of daily operations

Actually it does if he is the Managing Director/CEO. Don't ask me how I know.

Regards
Pat
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[IRstuff]

"Small" is often in the eye of the beholder and mind. In the US, a "small" company is defined as any entity that is less than 500 heads. I've worked at companies with less than 5 heads, and companies larger than 2000 heads.

Stratification and pidgeon-holing is almost always up to you; your own interests, and personality is what drives what you become. If you cannot be pidgeon-holed, you almost never will. I've always been a JOATMON, and the closest title anyone can pin on me is "analyst."

TTFN
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[supercub]

As mentioned above, it is good to know who many people are family members of the owner, and if they are upper management. If you don't hit it off with one of them, soon they all will be against you. Try to meet as many of the employees as possible, especially the ones that you will work directly with, even if it means making a return visit.

 

[moltenmetal]

Small companies are less likely to be publicly traded, and hence less likely to have disinterested idiots for shareholders. That can be worth its weight in gold- take it from anybody who has been laid off in a vain management attempt to boost the share value by cutting "headcount"... Avoiding public companies can translate into far more practical job security than is provided by the financial robustness and deep pockets a large company seemingly offers.

Small companies are great for people who prefer to learn by doing. Large companies are better for people who like to learn by being taught.

Which one you prefer depends on who you are, what's important to you, and how you prefer to work.

The benefits concern is a big and very practical one in the US- not so much in the rest of the world, where most essential healthcare is covered by taxes. Here in Canada, virtually nobody in the private sector has a defined benefit pension plan any more, and those that do will probably lose it soon enough. Outside of that, the difference between top-notch benefits and poor ones (i.e. assuming you are an employee rather than a contractor and hence get them) are at most few grand a year- not a big factor in deciding where to work.

 

[KENAT]

Most of the concerns about 'small' or 'family' businesses can occur in larger firms.

Instead of 'family' just insert 'manager & their cronies' or similar.

Heck, I know of someone with an 'out of control' dept manger in the federal US govt doing many of the things that some here seem to associate with only small firms.

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[berkshire]

KENAT,
"""I know of someone with an 'out of control' dept manger in the federal US govt"""

Does this guy supervise feeding frenzies?
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[KENAT]

It's not a guy, if that helps.

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[Forensic74]

Be careful OP, wanting a protege and seeking a partner are two very different things. I would probably want to define these intentions upfront if you're taking the job for ownership reasons. I've seen a lot of proteges that were merely donkeys chasing a carrot hung in front of their face. And even if the owner did give up a portion, would it be at a fair price?

Good luck to you!

 

[MacGyverS2000]

You don't know my wife, do you, Ken? ;-)


Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[KENAT]

Well unless you're a she, no.

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[tienti]

I work in a small company, and I like the atmosphere alot. And I do get to wear different hats and learn many fields. Problem though about the competetiveness and low revenue, can be unstable at times.

 

[tz101]

"I would probably want to define these intentions upfront if you're taking the job for ownership reasons."

Be a little careful in keeping your intentions close to the vest at some organizations. Your goal to become part owner could possibly be seen as a threat and might not work in your favor. Small company politics are a tricky balancing act in most instances.