Out of college and dismal about job. 5

[minjim]

Hi, I'm a civil engineer in training with interests in geotechnical/foundational field. I've recently graduated college in May 2010 and is working for contractor since July 2010.

I was initially elated to start working at my first job as an engineer in training. After all, the company had a PE that I hoped to work under. However, after three months, I feel I might have gotten myself into something else due to my naivete about the engineering industry.

I realized that the company I work for is less about design and more about build. All we do really is bid on projects designed by other contractors and then we simply go through the motion of ,scheduling, purchasing materials and constructing the project. I've never seen the PE use his PE seal or signature on a design or apply extensive technical engineering knowledge. It seems that he is mostly involved with the paperwork and the bid estimation of each project. The man certainly is knowledgeable, but to me, I see less of an engineer than as an estimator.

My question to you guys is have anyone ever gotten their first engineering job but it wasn't what they expected? Should I stick it through or is there no hope for learning how to design things? I'm worried that what I'm doing will not count towards my EIT experience. Other than that, I'm learning a great deal about contracting and the industry in general.

 

[GregTirevold]

First jobs are often like that due to the variety of uses companies put engineers to. Is it the best use of your ability? Maybe not, but since they sign the checks they make the rules.

That being said however, engineers should keep their resume updated and visible because even if you are not actively job hunting you never know when your "dream job" might become available. You may get more phone calls or emails about jobs you are not interested in, but you just have to learn to filter them out and be up front with people who contact you.

Learn what you can where you are at and keeps your eyes open for other opportunities.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregtirevold

 

[photoengineer]

First jobs are tough.

First of all, be glad you have one.

Second, look for a better job. Stay with your current employer for a year, and then move on if you find something better.

Look hard enough you find something that is really great and not just a little bit better.

Don't burn bridges with the PE. You may need his signature in 4 years when you try to get licensed. Leaving your company is ok, just do it on good terms and after you've been there a while.

 

[rbulsara]

Engineering is not just number crunching. What you are learning is also invaluable to make you a rounded professional. A few months is not enough experience to pass on judgment on usefulness of what you may be learning, whether or not you realize it.

Economics and feasibility of construction are key factors among what drives acceptability of an engineering decision.

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[minjim]

Thank you for the response. I realized that I'm coming off as a brat and someone who likes to complain. I have to admit that the job is NOT stressful thankfully, however, I'm just not doing what I'm hoping to do. Again, I'm certainly learning a lot about my field, and I am most certainly glad that I have a job instead of nothing and not learning anything. Thanks for the encouraging words.

 

[Ron]

First of you need to get your perspective right. I believe you have probably been a bit misled in your career thus far.

"Engineering" is a profession, not an industry. Construction is an industry, not a profession. In this respect, the two can be vastly different.

Many engineers who want construction experience jump into construction firms thinking they will learn everything there is to know about engineering and construction. You won't get either!

Most construction firms, these days, are construction managers, not builders. They have limited in-house capability to do anything other than push paper through a project, while subcontracting the actual work of building the project. This leaves a knowledge chasm that is not filled in this process. Many "contractors" have no idea if their subcontractors are building the structure correctly...just that it must be on time and within budget.

The engineering that gets done in a true construction firm is minimal. If it is a design-build company, then you can get some good design and construction experience.

If you want to do engineering design, look for an engineering firm, particularly if you will pursue engineering licensing.

 

[Twoballcane]

This will not be your last and only job. Treat each job as a stepping stone to the dream job you want.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[IRstuff]

3 months is a bit short to really make a solid judgement. We (aerospace) have programs that last for years, and if you come in at a random time, you might think we did nothing but push paper, which we did, but now, it's all about build (but still pushing paper, just not as much).

Additionally, you need time to really assess whether your expectations were even vaguely realistic. My first college roommate entered college planning on being a physics major. By 3rd quarter we had to declare a major, and he declared for English Lit, which was obscure, given the college we were at, but that's whole other story. The moral is that expectations and reality often clash, and will continue to clash. It's the nature of doing business and being a human being. Obviously, companies like GM and Chrysler had different expectations about what they'd be by now, but reality was a different matter.

For your case, you need to assess how much time you might realistically expect to be doing design. A project might take 5 years from start to finish, and often, design only occurs in the first year, followed by many years of procurement and fabrication and maintenance.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[SNORGY]

minjim:

Perhaps treat this as a bit of self-developing espionage. Pay attention to anything you can get a hold of related to the design aspects of every project that is being constructed. You will find a direct correlation between the projects with the fewest "construction" issues and the quality of the engineering. You will find a similar direct correlation on the flipside.

Those "nuggets" of information will later prove more valuable than you might realize now.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[minjim]

Thanks Ron for the useful reply. No, we are not a design build. I believe that we are strictly a build only contractor. We are also a union contractor. The company is really small with only 7 full time people including the president and me. There's also about 10 other regular union workers that work for us. The company is mostly involved in piers and docks repair and construction. We mostly use the office as the operational center and have one or two of our people go out to supervise the workers or assess the site conditions. But really, its mostly office work around here.

 

[msquared48]

I agree with the others here, but feel you may have a misimpression regarding the EIT, unless I misunderstand your posts.

You stated in your first post "I'm worried that what I'm doing will not count towards my EIT experience."

First of all, since you graduated, you can, and should take the EIT. You do not need to have on the job experience to do that. I took mine in my Senior year of College. Perhaps you meant "... towards my experience as an EIT"?

As for your PE, that's a different story, and I would check with your state board to see if it is admissable experience. In that circumstance, you could be spinning your wheels.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[minjim]

msquared48,

I have taken my FE exam in college and passed. What I meant was that I'm now an EIT working towards my PE. Is this not correct or am I not using the terms correctly here?

 

[cvg]

in general, engineers working for contractors are few and far between. most of the hard civil engineering is done by consultants. However, since the hardest job to get is the first one out of college, be thankful, gain some experience and keep your eyes open for a real engineering job. You might consider joining ASCE and attending the meetings, for the main purpose of meeting other engineers.

 

[minjim]

cvg,

Thanks for advice. I never made the distinction between consulting and construction! Obviously I know better now since working. I only went through college having fun with friends and was just excited to start being an engineer, but really I should have kept my eyes peeled about the real world and about where I'm heading.

 

[msquared48]

Yea. You meant your PE experience, i.e., the experience you need to document to be eligible to take your PE.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[IRstuff]

That's OK, since reality is different depending on where you are looking from. Even if you had been paying more attention in college, you would still have been looking from a distance, and only on a selected basis, neither of which is the same as a day-to-day immersion.

I graduated from college thinking I would be designing integrated circuits, which never happened, and within 8 yrs, I was no longer even in a position to have designed a chip. But, it's all been good experience.

You may find that you have a talent for something else, as well, and you should treat this as a paid opportunity to explore whether you might have better career in the type of company you're in now, compared with what you had expected.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[stanweld]

minjim,
You are lucky to be in construction at this point. You are getting first hand information as to how engineering designs are actualized in the field or NOT! When or if you move into the design field, you'll know where to look for the snakes.

 

[beej67]

On the flip side, there are professional certifications for project management and estimating too, and a good project manager / estimator can make more than an engineer of the same experience level, depending on who they work for.

My wife is an estimator and currently blowing the doors off my salary.



Stick it out a year and see whether you like it. Everybody switches careers about 2 years after they get out of school anyway. You could be a fabulously successful pastry chef in a decade.



Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[weab]

Don't discount your experience that you are getting now. When you make your move into design work, you will better understand construction and create details to better suit those doing the construction. You will have a leg up on some of your coworkers and be able to offer insight.

Plus, estimating, purchasing, etc, is GREAT experience. I do that in my job as a desk jockey in consulting engineering. When the economy turns around, you will be in a great position to land the job you want. You will be tailor-made to move on up.

 

[Patgeotech]

Minjim,

Stick it out as long as you can - although you may not love it at the moment, first jobs are tough! Everyone on this site will tell you that. One tends to have an idea of what to expect and expectations as a graduate are high, then you start the real engineering and find things are very different. As you gain experience, you will look back at this moment and realise it was worth the struggle - stick it out as long as you can and then move when you feel it is right. Do not burn any bridges as this world is small and you never know when your paths will cross again. Good luck.