Outsourcing stage 3 - Design Tasks 10

[KENAT]

I nearly posted this over in -Engineering Project Management but I’m not sure how much traffic that forum gets so I’ll post it here.

The outsourcing whirlwind is picking up momentum, first it was machining to Asia (which supposedly is saving bug $, though I’m not sure if those are real $ or projected) then drawing checking thread1103-216008 (hasn’t really worked out, yet) now it’s design.

We’ve actually already outsourced some design to companies with specific expertise in specialist areas (not that it went smoothly) but now it looks like they’re looking to do it for some not so specialist tasks.

I’ve been involved with outsourcing engineering tasks on both sides of the fence at a previous employer, though not really on sending out actual design tasks.

My first thoughts are that you need to robustly define the Requirement, not just technical/performance but things like drawing/CAD standards, what software they’ll use etc and project/financial/contract issues, explicit list of deliverables etc.

Second is that you need to actively manage the process, with status tracking, design reviews and the like, not just ship it out and forget about it until it’s due. This probably needs to be by more or less dedicated staff (though they may have more than one project to manage) not a design engineer doing it on the side or even a high level project manager doing it alongside significant management of internal work.

Third is that you need to examine/inspect what you receive to make sure you’re getting what you asked for/specified, this doesn’t just mean a cursory glance by someone not really qualified but quite likely a multi disciplinary design review and/or a detail review by relevant experts as required.

We currently fail to do this well for many internal projects and I’m concerned we’d be worse with outsourcing.

I’m not completely ruling out outsourcing, areas I’ve seen it work is out sourcing to ‘experts’ or for very large organizations outsourcing non-core tasks to smaller nimbler firms. However, these large organizations took the management of these efforts seriously and devoted resource to it. Also we are relatively small (mid sized company but with multiple sites/product lines each semi independent) so you’d hope we’re flexible enough where eliminating the overhead etc doesn’t compensate for the extra management required.

My manager has asked me to give some input on this, so that means you get a chance to have your say too;-) and make me look better (hence Improve Myself to Get Ahead in My Work). Any input appreciated did I miss anything or put anything that’s nonsense. I did a quick search but didn’t find as much as I expected to.

If places like Boeing manage to get it wrong on their premier project, what chance do we stand;-)


KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at

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[Gumpmaster]

StructuralEIT,

My company recently hired a sub-consultant to review a complicated connection design. The company was in Ohio. The companies engineers were located in the Philippenes (we didn't know this when we hired the company). Their engineering was so so. The coordination was very difficult. The "engineering manager" in Ohio didn't know much about engineering, and the engineers in the Philippenes didn't speak good english.

They were quick. They worked 7 days a week, more than 10 hours a day. The cost was $70/hour

I personally wouldn't go that route again.

 

[Lion06]

Gumpmaster-

I am assuming they didn't have to stamp anything. Is that true? If they did have to stamp something, would they have someone available to stamp?

 

[IRstuff]

I don't think it matters what size of company you are; you will have reason to outsource. Look at us, companies of "one," yet, we outsource a lot of stuff our ancestors used to do themselves.

For small companies, you have the added difficulty in keeping someone who is an SME on a particular subject being able to keep interested and busy, while only getting to do his thing once every few months or once every few years.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[BigInch]

You need to have supervision on site, say include a project manager and enough engineers to review the work as its done. If you do that, it can be very cost effective. I've supervised work done that way in Colombia and Venezuela for pipelines built in those countries. Of course language skills are always good to have in those situations.

The Philippenes is the second largest speaking country in the world. Granted they have their own "style", but once you get used to it, I think its actually pretty good.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
***************

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Gumpmaster]

StructuralEIT,

We didn't have them stamp anything. One of our east coast offices often uses them to design connections. I'm assuming they submit stamped calcs in that case. I'm betting they "review" the calcs in Ohio and stamp them. That's just a guess though.

 

[vc66]

BigInch-

Did you mean second largest English speaking country? I believe pretty much all countries speak.

V

 

[KENAT]

I was guessing Spanish.

BigInch, by supervision on sight did you mean for actual construction type projects?

I've worked in a company that was the 'outsourcee' for design type tasks and we didn't have onsite supervision. Our customers made visits as required and we had emails, phone calls etc. but no permanent presence.

For my current situation having a permanent presence at the vendor would nullify much of the perceived advantage.


KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[vc66]

Ahhh, Spanish makes sense too.

V

 

[KENAT]

Oops, as well as emails & phone callse we had site visits/meetings as required.

Just did a quick google and doesn't seem like spanish is the correct answer.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[ctopher]

Where I live, I get confused what's Spanish and what's English...

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[Mr168]

"I wonder how B&W, S&W, etc., have maintained any nuclear expertise over the last 40 years or so?"


While I can't speak directly of B&W, I can speak of S&W. S&W is owned by Shaw, which also has a 20% stake in Westinghouse. Lots of mingling going on there, and as someone else mentioned, plenty of overseas work in both new construction and maintenance contracts. You should start to see a fair amount of this spilling over domestically now, but I think the upcoming election will play a role in just how quickly things come together.

 

[MadMango]

Also I believe at this stage we're only looking to outsource the actual design and then take care of manufacture our selves, though I don't have all the details and am not sure how prototype would be handled (also we only have assembly facilities not machine shop etc so most of our piece part manufacturing is already outsourced).

Make sure the designers know about your manufacturing capabilities and limitations. If you are not careful, the cost will rise. From what I have been involved with, the design will come in-house, you'll spend a week getting drawings up to your standards, and will do the purchasing of components as normal, then receive everything and attempt assembly. During this attempt, it would be good to have the designers there to turn a wrench or two.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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[KENAT]

MM, I'm really not sure what the detail plan is, I'd think they'd have to have some input on the prototype/initial production. When I did outsource design we were usually involved in the manufacture too.

I think to some extent it depends how 'full service' they are/we expect them to be.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[plasgears]

Of course we outsource various details of our designs; the difference is that outsourcing to China is destroying our home industries. And the Chinese are taking great glee over this. Here is a supporting story.

The pastor of our church adopted a Korean boy, who is now attending college in China. We attended a slide show covering the pastor's trip to China last year. He mentioned a district some distance from Beijing that is building up rapidly to meet demands for outsourced products to the US. Unconsciously, he reflected the Chinese view that what they are doing is helping destroy American business, and they are enjoying this prospect.

We as a family have decided to vacation in our home state and buy American whenever possible. We buy Whirlpool, a Michigan enterprise. Our cars are US brands. We try to keep the money here in the US and in Michigan. May I recommend that you do likewise in your own state.

 

[ctopher]

plasgears,
Look deep under the hood of some GM cars. Some of it comes from Toyota or other manufacturers.
There are many U.S. products that are still 100% American made, but fading away each year.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[HgTX]

Yeah, I tried "Buy American" when I bought my first (and current) new car, and realized it was pointless because of what ctopher brings up. I ended up buying a Mazda; I have no idea which parts of it were made where (I know some Mazdas, or some parts of some Mazdas, are made in the U.S.), but the company itself has more U.S. ownership at the moment than Chrysler.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[KENAT]

Thanks for your input, however, this is not (at this stage) looking at outsourcing abroad. There are plenty of other threds debating the issues related to outsourcing to China etc, please post similar comments there.

thread769-227602

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[drawoh]

plasgears,

The Chinese had better not enjoy destroying American industry too much. The Americans owe them too much money.

JHG

 

[IRstuff]

Sure, it worked against the Japanese in the 80s.

TTFN

FAQ731-376