Overtime 16

[RedBauer]

How's overtime typically work with the firms you work with?

I currently am a civil PE that works for an A/E firm and a majority of us are salary. We're overly busy with too much work right now. We are not paid for overtime, so I generally do not work overtime unless it's necessary (i.e., board meetings, client meetings, etc.) that requires me to be on the road. To be honest, my brain is generally fried after 8 hrs of design if I'm sitting at my desk.

We were told recently that we had to work overtime to meet an unrealistic deadline for our architect. After checking around, it appears other firms within the state pay straight time for anything over 40 hrs that's billable. Shouldn't that be the norm? We work on an hourly basis. The billable hours over 40 hrs aren't really subjected to overhead costs, so the company is making money during this time.

Should I work overtime without any compensation? If I work overtime, I have to pay extra for my 9 month old son to be at daycare longer. So technically, I'd be losing money.

 

[moltenmetal]

OK OK KENAT- you can also add the brilliant, hard-working people who love their jobs so much and are so dedicated that they are confused by that fact into staying, even while their colleagues leave in droves. Does that make you feel better?! No insult intended KENAT- just an observation that if management is dumb enough to do that to you, they're going to reap what they sow. People with choices tend to tolerate bad treatment less well than people without choices.

 

[KENAT]

It's all good, I have some feelers out for other opportunities and trying to make sure I pull the 'chute before we spiral all the way down.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[oldestguy]

A vicious difference between the groups here. However, starting from scratch I assumed that, in time,(and that time was short) that I'd be one of management in some form. That started when I partook in promotion meetings and other business development activities. Other time, useful to both me and the company, was memberships and positions in engineering societies. All of these non-production hours were and still are considered PART OF THE JOB.
When times were extra busy, more than 40, all hours were considered part of the job. Same goes for lean periods when salary still came, yet production was light. Bonuses always were considered the frosting on the cake. Maybe a stupid position, but I was a very happy camper those years. Made many friends in the engineering and construction community.

Then comes the being self employed period. That no accounting of extra hours attitude carried on through. Weekends and nights were very busy early on and I never counted hours, just the nice bank account. Looking back the only change would be to go self employed earlier.

 

[RocketRed]

Great thread.

When I first started out I worked for the Federal Government (DoD). My department was split into about 60 branches. The entire department had 600 engineers, with about 1 middle manager for every 10 engineers. Each branch could be forced to work overtime based on production of the branch as a whole. I "worked" many 50-60 hour weeks even though my work was done by about 20 hours in. Everyone was paid hourly, and time + 0.5 for OT. I found out after a while that some of these guys routinely under-produced to ensure that we were working forced overtime. It was disgusting abuse of the OT system, just to pad paychecks. So I have seen it at its worst.

I left the government ASAP, and went to work for a small firm (I am part owner now) that is/was run by an owner who was a contractor prior to becoming an engineer. He based a lot of the company processes on his prior business. We were and still are hourly employees paid or comped time and half for every second over 40 hours a week. Generally, it has been a great success. The key though is that the company is small so I know if someone is producing at the right level. We build OT into some budgets (with client knowledge) and in others we swallow it to meet a deadline or because there is some other need. IMO it is much easier to run a quality lean staff who likes the extra money for OT. Occasionally the bean-counters whine and ask after employees, or why did we not build in the OT to the project, but sometimes it is necessary to understand that the clients paying the bills are what keep the business going, not the bean counters squeezing staff.

Even our managers/owners get OT pay if we are billing a job. I was absolutely shocked I had done when I reviewed my W-2 last month. This year I will only elect for comp time and surf more when I can.

 

[moltenmetal]

RocketRed: when you have a lean team working O/T in busy periods, most of your overheads don't increase- you don't have to hire more IT, human resources, presidents etc., or pay more for rent or property tax etc. You do have to pay to keep the lights on longer, but that kind of stuff is minor. Payroll burden doesn't really increase either- it's still a fraction of salary, whether you're paying for 40 or 50 hours in a week. The decrease in overhead more than provides for the extra compensation you provide for the O/T work, even at 1.5x salary. So feel free to tell the bean counters to get stuffed- you know how to run your business better than they EVER will.