OverWorked/Bullied/Blackmailed 14

[Space213]

Hi guys,


What would you guys do if you find yourself as the only one In a small start up company that is overworked and also the victim of being bullied and blackmailed for being fired or by your boss? he is one of those terrible bosses that gets a kick out of making fun of you.

Im designed 2 machines that are heavily selling and its our job to get the machined parts and assemble them with our shop guys and send em out. My boss has labeled me as the Owner of these designs and slowly has taken advantage of my ambition and has put a ton of stuff on my shoulders.
Nobody is forced to work as hard as i am in this small company but now i am getting demoralized.
I need 3 alarms to wake up in the morning. They dont let me breathe at work for a second while other employees screw off all the time or dont have near the amount of responsibility as me. They have some type of relationship where they dont get to deal with crap where im always getting beatdown for something.
I stay late to design and build the units but theres no appreciation for it.
I get yelled at for things that arent in my control and its just becoming exhausting.

I want a new job but its my first engineering job and i am 2 months away from 1 yr of exp. I really just cant do this anymore and i randomly get blackmailed for me getting fired but it never happens.

What is going on you feel?

 

[michaelwoodcoc]

Common at startups, and even established companies.

Tesla is a fine example. Elon always said things like "we're not meeting goals and we need to push, it's for planet earth". People worked like 50 hours a week.

Meanwhile, the upside is I believe they were also paid in Tesla shares, so they get a portion of the thing they're working to build. If they expect a lot of work, with no apparent upside, I'd kick the bucket at that place. If it's not a reciprocal employer employee relationship, it's not a good one to have.

Many places will promise you that "The payoff is coming". In my experience, they also say this to other employees. Meanwhile, some other employees get fired due to politics while waiting for that big payoff. Not worth it.

 

[PawSoxRule]

Space213, check out my post from a year ago, it is not exactly the same situation but similar in some ways:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=443205

My advice, accept that the situation will not change by itself. You either have to find a new job, or find a way to deal with this one. Standing up for yourself may make things better, or may make things worse. Staying at this job will be hard, but so is finding another one so you kind of have to choose the lesser of two evils, whatever that is for you. Personally, I would start looking for a new job. Try to do things to improve your physical and/or mental health because dealing with work pressure will only get worse if you develop health issues. Good luck to you, no matter what you decide to do!

 

[michaelwoodcoc]

PawSoxRule is onto something. Sometimes it's astonishingly easy to find a new job while you already have one. Just as it is easy to see which women are interested when you already have one. I think the pattern here is that "The good workers are taken" and among women "the good guys are taken". It's funny how that works. But if you're unemployed, you can go to inverviews and be asked why you're unemployed, for example.

Put your self out there looking for a new job. Linkedin, Monster, etc. I think you will find if you know your skill is valued, especially after you're given a new job offer, it'll give you the confidence to ask for fair treatment from your current employer as you transition to new employment. Try and make that transition easy for them, as you may need a signature for your license. If they're taking much advantage of you, you may find they make a good offer, monetary or otherwise, when you disclose your new job offer.

Get to a point where you're confident you have people willing to hire you, and stand up for yourself. If the situation gets worse, you have a place to go. If it gets better, good.

 

[michaelwoodcoc]

I think the thing to work on for you is actually boundaries. It sounds like you've been "pushed" past a boundary that should've existed.

My boss has labeled me as the Owner of these designs and slowly has taken advantage of my ambition and has put a ton of stuff on my shoulders.

Light should be flashing right here. What was your job description being hired? If there was not a concrete job description, ask for one. Take mental notes. Are you working later than you thought you would when you were interviewing? Are you taking all your brakes? If ever asked to do things that are consistently not in your job description fire off some emails or have a frank discussion about it.

The boundary you need is this (some flexibility): Not in the job description, and billable hours, I'm not going to do it unless given more salary or a title for compensation.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but I've studied similar things in psychology:

Nobody is forced to work as hard as i am in this small company but now i am getting demoralized.
I need 3 alarms to wake up in the morning. They dont let me breathe at work for a second while other employees screw off all the time or dont have near the amount of responsibility as me. They have some type of relationship where they dont get to deal with crap where im always getting beatdown for something.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...1001/vulnerability-and-other-prey-psychopaths

Certain personality traits may create better perpetrators and, unfortunately certain cues may create better victims. In a study by Wheeler, Book and Costello of Brock University, individuals who self reported more traits associated with psychopathy were more apt to correctly identify individuals with a history of victimization.

Unfortunately, management positions are frequently occupied by those with an antisocial personality disorder. I.E. the perpetrators who have no problem asking you for more. And if you don't give it, you're the problem. they'd try and do it to anybody if it weren't you. Just be aware of that.

You should consider looking inside yourself, because

research has confirmed the psychodynamic idea that we are often unaware of the motives behind our own puzzling or self defeating actions

You can change your personality, and any little problems such as not setting your boundaries over time. Even if it's "in your genes". For example:

Stable changes in the expression (activity) of genes, and thus of traits associated with those genes, can occur without any changes in a gene's DNA

To become fully functioning people, rogers maintained, we all need unconditional positive regard

Ever heard of employers who keep employees who make mistakes, because they think they are more valuable after learning from it?

I stay late to design and build the units but theres no appreciation for it.

It seems like you are in a position where positive regard is unobtainable. I'm going to you like this: Make a resume now, leave, and never look back.

People treated with conditional positive regard begin to suppress or deny feelings or actions that they believe are unacceptable to those they love. The result, said rogers, is incongruence, a sense of being out of touch with your feelings, of not being true to your real self, which in turn produces low self regard, defensiveness, and unhappiness. A person experiencing incongruence scores high on neuroticism, becoming bitter and negative.

see how your observation that you need 3 alarms is related to the situation? The depression of the situation is undoubtedly causing you these issues. You literally do not want to get out of bed in the morning and to go there. I could quote way more on this matter alone.

and you could do with a better work culture

"Americans often value "self enhancement" even at the expense of others, but the Japanese way of being a "good self" is through constant self-criticism in the context of maintaining face with others

You should ask yourself, why doesn't your management consider this other way of being a good self? why don't they analyze their own actions? They're valuing their "self enhancement" $$$ at your expense.

I could go on and on with research I've read, quoting all of them relating more or less to your situation. I only touched on the subject to show it's there. You're right. Your feelings are natural in your circumstances. You're right to question the situation. You're not imagining the things you've noticed, other people likely are getting treated better.

If this is a pattern in your life, you need to work on yourself, your boundaries, your personality and your character. Otherwise, your job satisfaction is contingent on you finding a fair, understanding, and caring employer/manager. I've found some that are fair, but they're far between.

I've had good experience with therapists some times. Honestly some know way more about psychology than I'll ever know about engineering. Finding a good one and talking about your work situation could possibly do you some good, there's probably a lot more to this story than you've provided us here, and there's probably a lot better advice tailored to your personality that a therapist can give you that we can't.

Good luck!

 

[Space213]

PawSoxRule,

I checked out your thread and alot of it has to do with that. I get frustrated when the senior engineer puts me down for not figuring stuff out to the point where its magic lol. To give all you guys an update so far it has been quite laid back because these toxic cycles come in waves to where they do the push and pull method.

My thing is i have designed two products for the company that uses proprietary equipment inside my design and within a year of working there The sales team was able to sell over 30+ units 100k+ of gross income. my income is just 65k.
I have no idea being at a start up how much of an impact I am making for the company and if suppose my designs sell for 10-20k each and say you sell them a few times a week am I deeming profitable for the company or does it take a lot more ? I am having a hard time figuring out my value I provide to this company.

I not only design I am in the shop training and building the units since nobody in the company really understands how to build the units like I do since I am the one who designed them so I am taking alot of work onto my shoulders just to prove since this is my first job and I am ambitious by nature. I also do basic P&ID's and also dabbed into some electrical drawings and understand basic electrical components that can power my design at different voltage specs. All this within a year when initially my job description was to just be a solidworks guy. I am improve tremendously and do alot but now that these designs of mine are selling like crazy nobody feels the motivation to get them out the door as much as I do and my boss just puts all the stress on me.

What do you guys feel?

appreciate your guys' advice and time once again.

 

[PawSoxRule]

"I have no idea being at a start up how much of an impact I am making for the company and if suppose my designs sell for 10-20k each and say you sell them a few times a week am I deeming profitable for the company or does it take a lot more ? I am having a hard time figuring out my value I provide to this company."

I don't know what exactly counts as profitable for your company or industry so I can't really comment on that. Sounds like you are definitely of value to the company from what you've described.

 

[CWB1]

Cultural environment aside, I would worry if my employer gave junior engineers that are less than a year out of school enough latitude to handle the majority of design work on two products. Not to belittle, but your first year or two in any new role should be closely monitored as you climb a steep learning curve, more of a team-effort until engineering competency is built to the point that you can successfully be an individual contributor.

As to the environment, a former supervisor once told me that something was wrong if I came into work without the "weight of the world" on my shoulders and at every well managed, successful company he's been correct. Good companies keep you busy, hire other folks based on talent not personality, and push you to your limits quite often to get the best out of you....kinda like the military. That's why agile and lean philosophies were developed, why companies have us sit through classes teaching how to prioritize tasks and work efficiently. Well-run offices are full of "Sheldon Coopers" who regularly will be unknowingly abrasive, annoying, or offensive. Its nothing personal, end of the day its who they are and a critical aspect of engineering is debating design strengths/weaknesses with an open mind, without emotion, and among a plethora of viewpoints and experiences. To the outside world (or folks new to engineering) this might seem a bit "rough" at times, but that's engineering. I would encourage you to get to know your colleagues outside of work, you might be surprised how different many folks are and learn to understand them better.

As to profit margin, IME manufacturers prefer to be above 40% and will rarely go below 30% on a new product as there are many backend costs after products are sold - warranty, sales freebies, legal, etc that can quickly consume an otherwise seemingly large profit. Personally I wouldn't recommend wasting time trying to rationalize your cost vs revenue generated as ultimately its your actions today that matter, not what you did yesterday.

 

[Agent666]

I break it down to the fact if I'm making money for someone else, that person better not be a complete dick.

I've been in similar but not exactly the same situations, looked around and asked myself if I am happy living with the fact that I'm making in some cases these guys a lot of money. My hard work is paying their bills, its pretty easy to convince yourself that they can go stick their job at that point in time as I can't live with the fact that I'm supporting their poor behaviour. Never look back.

 

[Space213]

Friday I hit a breaking point almost. I made a small mistake in not figuring out the electrical portion of our designs and which was a very simple mistake that was fixed with no loss but he happened to have blown up on me and the rest of the day I just kept getting bashed on by him and the other engineers around him because the energy became very contagious. I was so mad all day and just disappointed in how they treat me regardless of how much work I put in for them staying late and not just designing the units but also building them so I am doing double the work. I just wanted to quit and walk out but then I got over it and just kept my patience. I just wanted to walk out and say screw you guys.

His reason of why I was being picked on all day was because I made a small dumb mistake. Regardless of how much I get done for them it was just disappointing. I am willing to take a paycut and find something else my only obligation currently is myself at 29 years old.

I was able to deal with the verbal beating but now its just too much with almost a year into this company I am starting to get lash back at them alot more than I used to. I would just take the beating but its just too much now my tolerance is slowly going away. I have side endevours that are promising but not at the point to where I can just walk away at this moment.

 

[Agent666]

Yeah why not hang around until it affects your mental/physical health more, that's where it's going if not already there?

I hate to say it but staying around hoping that things will improve seems like false hope if this is their standard way of treating you.

Next time it happens just walk out for the day and take a break.

You mention the money, in my experience if it's at the point where that's the only thing you are sticking around for. Then you can keep that up for a while but it's rarely worth it.

 

[michaelwoodcoc]

Friday I hit a breaking point almost. I made a small mistake in not figuring out the electrical portion of our designs and which was a very simple mistake that was fixed with no loss but he happened to have blown up on me and the rest of the day I just kept getting bashed on by him and the other engineers around him because the energy became very contagious.

Could be a perfect example of group think:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/groupthink

The only considerations are that we only have the information that you give us to base our advice on. Furthermore, no one can be an impartial judge of their own cause.
You should aim to have one friend at work. Not to gossip with, but to try and aim for receiving that impartial, neutral opinion about what's going on. Someone who can witness the events from both sides. Preferably someone with an education similar to your own.

I agree that you should probably leave, especially if you can't talk about it and make things a little better one week at a time.

EDIT:
Almost forgot, this could be a perfect explaination: Displacement:
Link
If other employees are equally as miserable with the job, they could be taking their anger out on you:

Mr Walt humbled himself to his Father, and promised he would behave himself mightily mannerly. So away he went... he sate nexte to his Father and was very demure at least half dinner time. Then sayd he, I this morning, not having the feare of God before my eies, but by the instigation of the devil, went to a Whore. I was very eager of her, kissed and embraced her, and went to enjoy her, but she thrust me from her, and vowed I should not, ‘For your father lay with me but an hower ago.’ Sir Walt, being so strangely supprized and putt out of his countenance at so great a Table, gives his son a damned blow over the face; his son, as rude as he was, would not strike his father, but strikes over the face of the Gentleman that sate next to him, and sayed, ‘Box about, ‘twill come to my Father anon.’

Engineering student. Electrical or mechanical, I can't decide!
Minoring in psychology

 

[Space213]

last 2 posts pretty much solves it. I dont have any psychological issues. The answers are already here from all the posters. I am working on looking for a new job and if it does it to a breaking point between then and now I will just walk out as the above poster said.

Appreciate all the advice once again. Lets me know I shouldnt be going through this.

 

[CWB1]

My hard work is paying their bills, its pretty easy to convince yourself that they can go stick their job at that point in time as I can't live with the fact that I'm supporting their poor behaviour.

I'd recommend extreme caution going down that path. Employment is a two-way street. We're doing the work but our employers are also affording the opportunity to do that work. If someone's income is down close to the national average or their work rather uninspiring then by all means, demand what you will bc you've got little to lose. However, I'd caution anyone against making the mistake of letting their mouth and random asshats cost them a top-tier check or rare project opportunity. BTDT.

 

[Agent666]

I've been there and sold my soul too. If the answer to what am I getting out of this relationship is money, then it's the beginning of the end in my opinion. Talking yourself into the fact there aren't going to be other opportunities is beating yourself to death. If you are half competent don't sell yourself short by staying in a toxic work environment there's alway going to be other opportunities even if it's a move sideways instead of up. Experience will help you with the warning signs next time.

Everyone has different trigger points for how much crap they are willing to put up with. I think everyone has their limits, but doesn't necessarily know their limits, being over your limit and talking yourself into 'things will improve' affects you personally in a bad way in my opinion.

Because its really hard to come back from that situation even if things improve, the damage is done so to speak. It takes a significant change in the relationships to gain back trust and enjoyment in your work. I've done jobs where I really wished things would improve, good company, good projects, dream job in certain aspects, just bad/toxic environment, extreme pressures, no support, etc that I'm glad I eventually saw the light and moved on to better things. The moment I finally snapped and announced I was resigning it was like a huge weight lifted off my shoulders, a great feeling, but still hard to let go and walk out of somewhere where you've put your best foot forward for years.

To the OP, make sure you post back on your next steps. I wish you well in improving your situation!

 

[1gibson]

One or more of these things need to happen: better treatment, more compensation, fewer hours. Next time you are belittled in front of your peers, calmly but very loudly respond with that. At the very least it will quickly shut down the abuse. It should also earn you a little respect from everybody, and most likely a private conversation with your boss.

 

[lacajun]

That kind of stress is not good for your health. If people don't appreciate you, you can't make them. If they don't respect you, you can't make them.

You may find Character Disturbance by George K. Simon, Ph.D. an interesting read. It was an eye-opener for me as was Mindset by Carol Dweck, Ph.D.

Learn how to set healthy boundaries and to practice good self-care. You may want to read the law regarding bullying, too, just to ensure you're understanding their behaviors accurately.

You can't change people. You can only point out behaviors but they have to make the positive changes.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:

http://nspe-co.org/events.php

 

[Space213]

Hi guys,

so to give an update currently things have gotten better. My boss took me out to eat and tried to tell me how important I am to the team and the reason he pushes me so hard is because he feels I can take it and I can improve a lot. It hasn't gone back to that point and I also am just trying to get better at my job. It is a lot of project management/design/production/manufacturing tasks I have to complete in my job even though my initially job was to just CAD design. The other engineers only do 1-2 tasks at most but he saw how ambitious I am and slowly held me responsible for many other things.

Its great being my first job. The designs I produced happened to sell the most so all the documentation/production/manufacturing behind these product lines fell onto my lap since I was proclaimed to the be owner of them. So I've just tried to own the designs and push forward with them to get them out the door properly. I hope this experience can really make my resume shine and also in the future teach me how to work with difficult people as well.

What do you guys feel?

Thank you

 

[BrianPetersen]

From post #1, "What would you guys do if you find yourself as the only one In a small start up company that is overworked and also the victim of being bullied and blackmailed for being fired or by your boss? he is one of those terrible bosses that gets a kick out of making fun of you."

I hope that in your lunch meeting, you made the point that you had been pushed too far, and that it had better not ever get to that point again. If the boss backs off and starts acting professionally, fine. If that sort of behaviour is in his nature, odds are, it will return.

From post #1, "I stay late to design and build the units but theres no appreciation for it." Then don't. At 5 pm, leave work behind. If your position is salaried, it might be expected to occasionally work late to help a critical project along, but it shouldn't become routine, and if it interferes with taking your son to baseball ... at 5 pm, that takes priority.

Have your back-up plan ready. Who knows; in the course of making your back-up plan, it might become the main plan.

 

[monkeydog]

It is possible your boss's senses picked up that you were not happy and were looking into other places of employment. That may be your change in attitude when you began polishing your resume' or actively started looking.

His change in attitude with you may be his way of trying to keep you from exiting. A tiger cannot change his stripes, and your boss will eventually go back to his own ways - unless he makes a real effort to change. You would see that change in how he treats everyone else, not just you.

 

[masieh2004]

Space213,
You should start working on your resume and cover letter. Look online for jobs that you are interested in because it is definitely time to change your job. The boss and company you have mentioned above are not uncommon. You have learned your lesson and now it is time to move on. Don’t worry about spending only a year at this company. Just make sure you have a job offer before leaving. Good luck!