P&ID Comparisons with the finished systems 3

[gaitano99]

Would anybody at this forum know of any resources that show the actual P&ID
used to produced the finished equipment. I am very interested in seeing comparisons between
the P&ID and a finished 3d model or photos of the actual process or equipment
made using the P&ID. P&IDs don't show you how to physically arrange the piping,
valves, equipment etc. I would like to compare the P&ID with the reality of
the finished item so I can better understand the reasoning behind the finished
layout.

Regards
Gaitano99

 

[pennpiper]

Gaitano:
Regarding your question. The P&IDs are "schematic" drawings, the physical plant is the real thing. You will never see a P&ID that resembles the physical plant or a physical plant that resembles the P&ID. It is not reasonable to expect this or strive for it.


prognosis: Lead or Lag

 

[BigInch]

You might find a pipeline meter station, or other small unit where you do manage to see some similarities between drawing and appearance, however what is more common brings to mind the old Hollywood phrase, "The characters in this film are fictitious and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental."

I hate Windowz 8!!!!

 

[SNORGY]

If the P&ID doesn't resemble the real plant, at least schematically, following the page from one side the other, then it's obvious that someone can't read the drawing - either the person who built the plant or the person trying to read the drawing after it was built, or both.

 

[gaitano99]

Pennpiper, BigInch, and Snorgy;

I appreciate your response but I thought it would be interesting to review actual P&IDs along with their
finished systems. I realize the physical appearance of the finished system will not look exact to the P&ID
schematic. I was hoping to find a resource that I could see those comparisons. I think it would
be educational to provide some form of comparison of P&IDs and their finished appearance. Like have the same
P&ID modeled by 5 designers and then compare the results. I think a lot could be learned from this. I find
it interesting to read about how designers resolve issues with P&IDs.

Thanks
Gaitano

 

[SNORGY]

gaitano99,

What is it that you expect to see different - or have observed to be different - between the P&ID and the 3-D model or the actual plant? They should end up in complete agreement. "Designers" (i.e. drafts persons) are not at liberty to take the P&IDs under advisement and make discretionary changes.

 

[MJCronin]

Gaitano,

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you are interested in details regarding the art (discipline ?) of piping design.

Six different piping designers will arrange the piping six different ways

Consider purchasing any of these books:

http://www.amazon.com/Pipe-Drafting-Design-Second-Edition/dp/0750674393

http://www.amazon.com/Process-Piping-Drafting-Rip-Weaver/dp/0872017648

http://www.bentley.com/ar-AE/Training/Products/Resources/Books/FundPipingDes.htm

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
Venture Engineering & Construction

http://www.VentureEngr.com

 

[IMSUT]

What we usually do is a "physicalization", when the plant is built, P&ID will be updated accordingly in order to show the components where they are, i.e. if in a P&iD is shown in sequence a TI and a TT, then in the plant are TT and TI, then PID will be updated.

Giorgio

 

[BigInch]

IMSUT, A worthy objective, probably not entirely necessary, but I do admire your dedication. I am drawing the London Tube routes in their correct physical location, rather than how they appear on the route schematics posted above the seats and the printed on the free handouts. I do that because I am obsessed with things being represented in their correct physical locations, X, Y, Z coordinate system. I love Google Earth. Why? Because I think that I can understand things better when I have them mapped into their physical coordinate space. However what I realized when I looked at the London Tube Map with all routes and stations in their correct positions was that I got on the train and promptly got lost in the noodle bowl I drew. As it turns out it is much easier to see what station is coming up next when you don't have to track your route through the noodle knots to see what station lies on the other side. Now that I think about it, it's exactly why we do schematic drawings. Sometimes seeing things in their physical space can actually be a detriment to easily understanding how they work. Sometimes schematic drawings show us exactly what we need to see and understand how they work, still allowing us enough time to get off the train, at the right stop, before the door closes.

I hate Windowz 8!!!!

 

[lhwingking]

I guess the only options are, take your P&IDs to the site and witness your engineering, or refer to isometric drawings or General Arrangement drawings.

L. Hariharan, Essar Projects India Limited, Hydrocarbon SBU, India.

 

[kacarrol]

I second MJCronin's advice, especially about the reference to the piping book by Parisher. I read that text when I first started out in piping stress analysis, it was an easy read to get warmed up for learning about piping.