Painting an Old Bridge

[anominal]

Our firm is doing a feasibility study for a RR bridge over a state road that is acceptable structurally but has debris falling off. The lead paint and rust has caused problems in the town (it is located by a school).

The study is to determine whether it makes sense to do repairs and re-paint the bridge or replace the structure all together.

We have a good handle on how much the bridge replacement would cost and the cost of any repairs, however we are unsure how to estimate how much it would cost to sand-blast and paint the whole structure. Calculating the surface area that needs to be painted is easy, but putting a price to it is another matter.

Any help appreciated,
uStation

 

[hokie66]

Not something an engineer can normally estimate well without assistance from an expert. Suggest you involve an industrial coatings contractor.

 

[anominal]

Well that seems like cheating, we are working for the state

 

[Ron]

That's not cheating...that's smart. At least have them consult to YOU. Since you are dealing with lead paint, consider using dry ice or water blasting rather than sand blasting....sand blasting increases the amount of contaminated residue for disposal....that costs more money.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Hokie66 has it right - this can be a very intensive and expensive process and not something a good ol' boy with a sand blaster and pickup truck can do - at least in accordance with all state and federal rules.

 

[Qshake]

Or, you can suck it up and ask you state liaison what the current unit bid prices are for

Surface Preparation for Re-Coating Structural Steel and
Field Application of Prime Coat - System (whatever)and
Field Application of Intermeiate Coat - System (whatever) and finally
Field Application of Finish Coat - System (whatever)

Most DOT's will use a 3 coat system to achieve 8 to 11 mils of protection, though not all of them completely coat the structure in the final coating. Some just do what's visible to the public.

Nearly all DOT's keep track of costs and have a historic bid item accounting.

All in all, your major cost will be in the surface preparation as this is where the lead abatement is going to be. This will also include the majority of the scaffolding or platform erection and removal. Can be expensive up to $20/sq. ft. The rest of the work might be around $1.00/sq. ft. each pending the bridge type.

All in all, the advise to consult your local painting outfit is good advise.


Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[hokie66]

If you can't involve a coatings contractor for some reason, you may be able to get the same type assistance from one of the industrial coatings manufacturers.

 

[dicksewerrat]

Look at contracts that have been let. If they are for a DOT, they are public information.

Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.

http://WWW.amlinereast.com

 

[cntw1953]

I think you have no problem in getting information on unit price for painting but lead abatement, for which the cost is affected by many factors.

If lead abatement is included in the painter's scope, then you may contact subcontractor(s)/consultant(s) specialize in this area to form the cost base. I don't think you violate any rules, as long as you don't suggest/order the painting contractor to follow your leads.

For sensitive environmental issue, I would pay a fee to a consultant to evaluate and plan the efforts, and incorporate it into bid document.

 

[chicopee]

There are painting outfits that sandblast bridges. Curtains will erected in an area of the bridge, vac trucks with HEPA filters to provide air circulation and capture lead dust, and the sandblast equipment will incorporate a feature to recapture the grit material and paint debris for reusage and eventual disposal.
Workers in the enclosure will don protective equipment as required in the OSHA lead standard and ambient air samplers will be operating inside and outside the enclosure.

 

[Qshake]

The sandblasting down to SSPC near white surface, lead containment, etc. is included in my post noted as surface preparation for recoating structural steel.

I'm in the midwest and we have a lot of steel bridges to coat and recoat. I've been involved in several such projects in the last 10 years.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[bridgebuster]

I have a bridge rehabilitation project in New York City that was bid in February 2008. Its a single span Baltimore truss over four railroad tracks (Amtrak & CSX); the Amtrak lines have catenaries.

The bridge is 118' long x 92' wide. The roadways are 32' each. There are sidewalks on the outside of thetrusses. There are three trusses; the third one divides the local traffic from the interstate traffic.

The bid price of $3,175,500 includes complete removal and disposal of the lead-based paint, full containment, and three coats of paint. There are no permanent lane closures; work will be performed at night from 10PM to 5AM.

The price does not include maintenance and protection of traffic and railroad flagging.

 

[anominal]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the responses.

We're going to make an unofficial phone call to a coatings contractor, the ten minutes on the phone will probably give us all the information we need.

Qshake:
This is a DOT job, however with the site conditions have a number of considerations to take into for this project that would forgo using historical bid prices as our basis. Our state even has a guide for preliminary design with unit prices for painting and containment, but we don't think they are applicable in our situation:

1. The bridge is located very close to a school, where children walk under it.

2. The low vertical clearance (12'-10" posted) may cause difficulty with the containment system.

3. It is on an active rail line, for which we may not be getting any significant track outages.

Phone call was a great idea

 

[bridgebuster]

In my experience I've found that DOT's generally don't have a problem with a consultant calling a contractor, provided that no sensitive information is given out.

On another project a painting contractor told me if the has to install a containment structure on a daily basis, the price can easily triple.

If you're dealing with Amtrak - good luck. On the NYC project I cited, flagging runs about $7K per day - and that's for about 5 hours of working time for the contractor, if he's lucky.

 

[Qshake]

Thanks for the note. I can appreciate the fact that not all bridges fit the typical situations.

Also consider Safespan to aide with the low overhead clearance. This product helps to keep teh working platform tight up under the bridge for most of the work. Some work may be required from below after the safespan is removed.

Good luck.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.