Paper, Calmenson & Co Bar Joists... 3

[walterbrennan]

thread507-102271

In reference to an old posting...

If anyone is still in need of PACAL bar joist information, I have an old binder of their stuff.

PBW

 

[dhengr]

Walterbrennan:
Isn’t that interesting? I worked with them during my early years, competed with them during my middle years, working for another fabricator, and then consulted for them during my later years. I had a number of friends there. I don’t know if they ever furnished bar joists for one of my jobs during the early years, but they sure furnished a bunch of structural steel for those jobs.

 

[walterbrennan]

Yeah, when I was working down in the Twin Cities area, I ran across a bunch of jobs that had their joists from way back. Apparently they quit making them in the late seventies or early eighties. I eventually made contact with one of their engineers (since retired) who provided a binder for me to copy that contained most of their original joist design sheets. Pretty neat stuff.

 

[jcarlson68]

Walterbrennan:

I just started a project where the bar joists in need capacities for are Paper Calmenson from around 72. Any data you could get me on these would be greatly appreciated. The tag no. is B7139-26-39-11

 

[walterbrennan]

I'll dig it up tonight...! ;-)

 

[jcarlson68]

Thank you

 

[walterbrennan]

Jcarlson68:

What I have is engineering data as it was passed on to me. The fellow that gave it to me (Jerome Williams) attached the “release” which is at the front end of the information. Jerome was an engineer with PACAL at the time that they folded up, and “liberated” this manual. I’m not sure if he was personally involved in compiling and maintaining this information, but I will state that I take no more responsibility for its accuracy or use than he has in his letter of transmittal.

The compilation is about forty megs of information, and I do not presently have a place to park it, online (apparently the file is too large for Eng-Tips uploader to handle). If you have an FTP site, I will be pleased to place it thereon… otherwise, you can let me know the depth of your joist(s), and I can parse out the sheets that might apply to that size; which will be a much more manageable size of information.

Please let me know...

Either way, this information should be regarded carefully, and above all else at your own risk.

-------------------------

You are probably already aware, but for those not familiar with this construction...

The tag number for most open-web “bar” joists of that time were (and, for many manufacturers) usually keyed to an erection plan.

And, if you have worked with older steel joists (i.e. 40’s through 70’s) you’ll have noted from the old catalogs that the manufacturer’s published the cross-sectional components; providing top and bottom chord angle sizes, web member sizes, sometimes even weld sizes and lengths. In those days, you were fairly certain to get the joist you were ordering comprised of the sizes of members published in the catalogs.

In the old days, every engineer had a computer, and when most were still using slide rule technology, standardization was the key.

Nowadays, of course, they will build them out of whatever they can most readily acquire, within reason, as long as they can meet the published capacities; which is one reason why most joist manufacturer’s long ago gave up providing cross-sectional component data.

That said, Paper Calmenson & Co. (PACAL) generally provided the sizes per joist designation; and so all you really need is to do some measuring and comparing to the attached data, and you ought to be able to identify your joist from therein.

I saw on a previous post that someone mentioned all you had to do was to find an SJI standard for that time, or a copy of the fifty-year SJI book, and you could draw the capacities from that. I would say that it was not a certainty that PACAL joists were manufactured to SJI. That said, it would not be a bad idea to compare the PACAL information herein with the SJI book, if you have one. At the end of the day, it might even be worthwhile to run a quick and simple model to confirm.

Anyway, have fun…!

PBW

 

[CELinOttawa]

Here you go: Posted in a former life...

http://www.drivehq.com/

I've created a username called "Engtipsstructural" and with the password "engtips"...

 

[walterbrennan]

Here's the gravy I mentioned, above... ;o)

 

[walterbrennan]

I may as well scan and load the rest of my ill-booten-gotty, since I've taken the time to unearth it from the dark reaches of my garage...

These are all (past) Midwestern steel joist players, from various periods of the fifties through the seventies. Enjoy...

 

[walterbrennan]

...

 

[walterbrennan]

First two were Armco-Sheffield; c. 1972 and 1963, respectively.

Here's a Bethlehem c. 1952...

 

[walterbrennan]

Another Bethlehem, date unknown...

 

[walterbrennan]

Laclede, H-Series...

 

[walterbrennan]

Laclede, J-Series...

 

[walterbrennan]

Macomber MacoTruss...

 

[walterbrennan]

Macomber V-Beam...

 

[walterbrennan]

Sheffield c. 1957...

 

[walterbrennan]

Sheffield c. 1963...

 

[walterbrennan]

Standard Iron and Wire c. 1954...