Paperless workflow, tablets with stylus? 2

[human909]

Hi all. I though I'd reach out for ideas and tips on improving my workflow particularly with respect to using a iPad or similar tablet to mark up drawings. My main needs is to be able to quickly edit and annotate PDF file drawing which will then be saved and sent to be more formally drafted by others. I'd likely be using two devices at the same time, a computer and a tablet. (Otherwise a computer and pen/paper.)

Who here has used a tablet (Apple, Android or Windows) for such tasks and what recommendations and feedback do you have?

My first thoughts are a Samsung Galaxy Tab S8, they seem suitable and I'm more comfortable with Android rather than iOS) Though a Microsoft Surface might be better to integrate very smoothly with my windows laptop workflow.


Thanks in advance for any tips.

(In my salary job I have been mainly managing to get by without paper, printer or scanner. Everything is pretty much done electronically including marking up drawings and other things. Quick informal hand calcs might be by hand on paper or using excel or Mathcad. I've found this all quite suitable.

I've taken up doing some residential consulting work on the side with another partner which requires fast and clear marking up of cleaned up Architectural drawings. I've found that doing on my laptop computer is just too slow and impractical. I was about to buy a larger printer/scanner which would align with the workflow approach of my engineer partner but then I figured there is probably a better way. Hence me looking at tablets with styluses.)

 

[milkshakelake]

I made a little guide for this, though I make a case for not using tablets:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=499949

If you're set on tablets, I recommend a Surface instead of an iPad or Android. You can easily connect it to your laptop or server with Windows folder shares (map a network drive) and work on files directly. With iPad, it's a very Apple-centric device and hard to get to work with Windows. It's possible, but it's complicated and involves setting up Samba shares or using a dedicated app. I'm not sure about Android, but last time I used one, it didn't natively support Windows folder shares (also known as Samba shares). As for the actual program to mark up pdfs, Bluebeam or PDF-Xchange.

 

[kipfoot]

I have a Samsung Galxy Tab S7 that I've found to be useful for markups. It's small, which is a disadvantage compared to the Microsoft Surface, but makes it easy to travel with. The essential apps, in my opinion, are Cx File Explorer and Xodo. Xodo is a useful pdf editor and Cx File explorer lets me open and save the pdf via my network from my desktop project folder. With these, I can go back and forth between the tablet and Bluebeam Revu on the desktop.

 

[StrucPatholgst]

IPad Pro 12.9 user here. It has revolutionized how I work. Main apps I use:

TikTik calendar (love it because I can make entries and changes by voice while driving through Apple Car Play)
AutoCad (I can work anywhere now, great for flights)
Notability (for my daily notes, taking calls, short lists, site visit notes, etc. Particularly good for site visit data collection, since I set up templates)
Concepts (for field sketches)
ClearCalcs (for structural sizing)
FastFields (for rapid report writing)

Four years ago I was booking maybe $140k a year. This year I am on pace for $275k.

 

[Celt83]

I’ve landed in the iPad camp as well.
Google Drive/Onedrive allow for easy file sharing between the iPad and Office or Home computer.

GoodNotes (personal notes and computation pad, their inking and templating system are excellent and it is a pay once model as well. Exporting to PDF is lightyears beyond OneNote)

Onenote (work notes / work calc storage, onenote can be hot garbage most of the time but it comes with office 365 and integrates with Teams so it has utility)

Drawboard ( pdf markup, they just removed a bunch of features from their free tier and moved them to a “lower” tier subscription model so likely going to abandon this app)

Concepts ( too scale sketching, a la carte pay once or subscription everything model. I need to spend more time with this one)

Apple Books ( I have a massive technical library in pdf and epub format and this is an excellent reader)

Talking with out Autodesk rep it sounds like there are plans to roll out an app in the near future for BIM360 with similar functionality to PlanGrid.

StrucPatholgst:
Do you use concepts for pdf import and scaling dimensions, curious of how that workflow is?

 

[human909]

Thants everyone they are REALLY helpful replies.

I made a little guide for this, though I make a case for not using tablets:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=499949

I only discovered display tablets in my research shortly after my first post. They seem perfect in many ways, but do seem better for a fixed desktop work environment rather than a portable laptop work environment. Cables add hassle and also USB-C as good as it is, isn't durable for 3 or 4 cycles per day every day of the year in my experience. I will consider them, but for the reason outlined I likely will give it a pass for the moment. (If I end up setting up a fully fledged home office with desktop then this seems like a no brainer.)

If you're set on tablets, I recommend a Surface instead of an iPad or Android. You can easily connect it to your laptop or server with Windows folder shares (map a network drive) and work on files directly.

Yep. I think you are right here. I've done more research and surface seems the best for my purposes and for pretty much the reasons you have outlined. It probably has more power than I need just for simple file editing but I'm sure with additional power I'll find additional multitasking uses. It is more pricing that what I was initially looking at, but I should be stingy when it comes to work tools.

I'm not sure about Android, but last time I used one, it didn't natively support Windows folder shares (also known as Samba shares).

Yep.. I've in the past used third party apps to access Samba shares but it was never seamless. I think I'd have to use a cloud based setup if I didn't want too much hassle, but I prefer local files for the time being and don't want to be forced down a cloud based route.

As for the actual program to mark up pdfs, Bluebeam or PDF-Xchange.

Thanks. Drawboard PDF and Xodo are the other two I've also considered. I'd prefer to play around with the stylus before deciding. I have been happy with Foxit for viewing and occasional editing/measurement, but it is not suitable for extensive editing.

I have a Samsung Galxy Tab S7 that I've found to be useful for markups. It's small, which is a disadvantage compared to the Microsoft Surface, but makes it easy to travel with. The essential apps, in my opinion, are Cx File Explorer and Xodo. Xodo is a useful pdf editor and Cx File explorer lets me open and save the pdf via my network from my desktop project folder. With these, I can go back and forth between the tablet and Bluebeam Revu on the desktop.

Yeah I was looking at the Galaxy Tab S7 or S8 in the store yesterday when I started my search. They seem really nice. Though given that they aren't much cheaper than going with the Surface I'm now veering away from Android. Thanks for the tip about Cx File Explorer, I'll have to have a look.

 

[Celt83]

Human909:
How important is battery life to you? The surface is a fine choice but battery life can be lacking, to keep price down look into a used option on ebay/etc.

 

[human909]

IPad Pro 12.9 user here. It has revolutionized how I work. Main apps I use:

I’ve landed in the iPad camp as well.

From my childhood days I've been PC all the way with a zealotry dislike for Apple! Though I am willing to cast aside my silly biases and consider an iPad. One advantage is I could readily borrow an iPad from a family member to try one out for a bit. Overall though I just don't want the learning curve at the moment, despite know that iPads are clearly some of the best if not THE best on the market.

Four years ago I was booking maybe $140k a year. This year I am on pace for $275k.

Congratulations. I'm working alongside and established business partner who is very efficient due to decades of experience and good workflow. He books good money. I need to improve on this type of work both from a workflow perspective and just my experience.

How important is battery life to you? The surface is a fine choice but battery life can be lacking, to keep price down look into a used option on ebay/etc.

Battery life is not super important, but your point regarding the Surface is good to remember. As long as it has enough to keep up with my laptop 3-6hrs then that is fine by me, (Some of the modelling programs I used do destroy the battery time, but I won't be using these very often for residential work.)

A long battery life option could open up more options either on site or when I can't have two devices open. However the main purpose will be to use alongside my existing workhorse laptop


Thanks again everyone for your tips, not just on what devices you use but just on comments that it has helped workflow. All I know is that for now one screen and no stylus or pen doesn't work at all! (I do have a second screen both at my home office and my salary office.) I welcome any more tips too!

 

[StrucPatholgst]

StrucPatholgst:
Do you use concepts for pdf import and scaling dimensions, curious of how that workflow is?

I do import PDFs to markup, and you can scale the workspace to the drawing, and the workspace is an infinite board, but be careful: do not expect to have the ability to plot a full 24x36 sheet with your markups. While a Concepts project can be outputted to a PDF, the output is limited to the field of view you have up at the time of export. It can get very blurry with full 24x36 sheets. I've tried doing full original drawings in Concepts (and I can plot directly from my iPad to a plotter), and while it does work, the quality fades dramatically as you plot on anything larger than 11x17. I've since limited Concepts to note taking, data collection sketches, sketches for use in MS Word reports, and concept plan/markups.

 

[milkshakelake]

For long stints when I need a laptop with stylus for a long time (I do use that setup in special cases; I just find the desktop solution far better), I have an AC power battery backup thing. It's small and light enough to lug on an airplane and adds about 5 hours to my 5 hour laptop battery; moreso if I use battery saver, low brightness, and other little hacks. I'd think an iPad would have a better battery life, but it's rarely a concern with the AC battery box. When driving, I plug it into the car to recharge the box. It supports a solar panel, so that would be an option if I ever needed more battery while being on the move. I'd leave the solar panel on top of my car or peeking through a window. There's probably only one day in my life where that would've been useful, so I haven't figured out the solar panel thing.

For portability, storage space is important to me. I use a 2 TB NVMe; Surface can be expanded to that, though older models might have an upper limit. I have the portable unit always doing a 2-way sync to my server using Goodsync, so any changes I do are automatically uploaded when I'm in Wifi range. It's much more stable and less expensive than a Cloud based setup, but needs slightly more tinkering on the back end, but it's manageable by anyone. The 2 TB is more than enough to sync all the "active" projects.

 

[human909]

Yeah I'm the same. I have my a big expansion battery, they are great. For what it is worth I split my time between:
-salary job at office with docking station
-salaried work with laptop at home
-side gig work mostly from home (where I really need a stylus)
-site visits at least monthly and occasionally do a couple week stints interstate on site so portability is important to me

A fixed desktop setup is not my preference. However I could use a powered docking station at home with a display tablet. Good to get an idea of what other engineers are doing.

 

[KootK]

As long as we're talking office toys, I can't recommend this thing highly enough. I hummed and hawed at the cost for the better part of a year but now regret waiting so long. It's like a can of compressed air that never runs out and has three times the power (it's corded). Every couple of months, when I start to notice that my office looks like the crypt keeper's tomb, I hose the whole thing down with air (computer, monitors, keyboard, desk, chair, sonos, printer, scanner, bookshelves and books). Then I vacuum the floor. 10 minutes and my office is 80% as clean as it has ever been.

 

[XR250]

Honestly, for residential work, I can't remember the last time I had to mark up a PDF or thought it would improve my situation. What type of work flow requires this?

 

[milkshakelake]

@XR250 Any and all residential work flows. Something like this:

It could've been done with paper, but keeping this paperless saved time and kept the office organized with one less folder to worry about and track down.

Edit: The other way to do this, which also keeps an organized office, is to scan paper and throw it away.

 

[XR250]

Got it. I scan paper and recycle it. One less thing I have to carry in a house or crawlspace.

 

[sticksandtriangles]

I just pulled the trigger on the HP spectre x360 that has a stylus, hopefully it works well.

I've got an HP guy in the family that swears by it, so I decided to give it a try. The IT guy in our office said that they looked at these back 4 years ago and they didn't like them for some reason.

I'll report back on if I like it, should be in my hands by April.

S&T -

http://www.re-tug.com

 

[human909]

Got it. I scan paper and recycle it. One less thing I have to carry in a house or crawlspace.

Print, mark and scan would be my alternative. I'm just starting residential, so I've yet to form my workflow habits. I'd like to be paperless as I believe I can be more productive that way IF I get my setup right. At the moment I'm slow (both workflow and design).

I just pulled the trigger on the HP spectre x360 that has a stylus, hopefully it works well.

That is a nice bit of kit. Just watch the heat issues if you run powerful software!

 

[jerseyshore]

For the past 3 years in my office, I've marked things up on the free Foxit PDF reader for our drafting department. It has its quirks sometimes, but very easy to use and free. I'll draw up details and mark-up big floor plans. Done many a 5 story building this way since COVID.

For my own company, as a 1 man band I very rarely mark up anything since I'm doing the drafting myself so the free Foxit program is great. Only downside I've heard is that is a PITA to electronically stamp with the free version. I've heard people use Adobe for that. But in NJ with a raised seal digital sealing is very rare.

 

[milkshakelake]

Optimizing workflow is a tough one for me. Been working on it for years. I've optimized steel, foundations, and SOE about as much as humanly possible without AI, but not CFS, wood, or flat slab concrete. I might make a post asking for tips on that. But going paperless has helped in all aspects. I'm a big proponent of that.

 

[Lomarandil]

Our office is rolling out Surface Go 3 with Bluebeam loaded and a whiteboard app for scratch work. One of the guys has been running with that setup for about 6 months with great success. Easy to interface with our other tools, stylus input, he gets a full work day charge without issue.

Personally, I find that my work laptop and mouse with Bluebeam is more productive (I don't get a big boost from stylus input for PDF markup, and have a Supernote A6X for hand sketches) and very nearly as portable, but I understand the appeal.