Part Family Part Numbers

[J-C]

We model part families as configurations in SolidWorks. The model file has a Prefix number and the part number adds a suffix to that number. The Prefix is also the drawing number.

000001 (Drawing/Family number)
000001.001
000001.002
000001.003
000002.001

The question is in regards to trying to create an automated part number database. Taking out the next prefix number is easy, but adding to an existing family is not as easy automatically.

We could try doing away with the family numbering scheme but how do you name stuff in configurations if the numbers are all over the place? What do you name the file?

Jsut curious how others might do this.

Jason

SolidWorks 2007 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
SolidWorks 2008 SP0.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[kcarpenter]

Wow....you're a glutton for punishment Jason. The problem isn't about your configurations or your automated DB, it's your numbering scheme. This has been hashed out many times and will continue until the end of days. You're going to get a range of answers/opinions so here's my "opinion". It's just a number, don't build complexity into the numbers. If you're going to have an automated numbering system, just use that to track the family. What you need is ***drum roll*** .... you guessed it....a PDM! You might already have one, we don't know.

We steer well clear of using configurations all together. One part/asm, one drawing. If we need another one that only slightly different, it gets a new number. Period. And yes, we have hundreds of fastners modeled each with it's own number. The descriptions in our PDM system allow us to quickly find what someone might need. Sounds like a lot more work, but it will save you hours of headaches later.

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Administrator
Invacare Corp.

 

[JMirisola]

I second Kevin's comments. Smart part numbers only become dumb in time.
At a previous company I worked for, we followed the three F's.
If the form, fit or function changed, it got a new part number. Trying to keep "like" parts together is bad juju.
That all being said, I seem to recall you saying, at some point, that you had started a new job and you were stuck with what they were doing?

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP

http://designsmarter.typepad.com/jeffs_blog

Dell M90, Core2 Duo
4GB RAM
Nvidia 3500M

 

[J-C]

The number is not really smart, its sequential. But it is "family" oriented.

Configurations are just too handy to give up. They are easy to create, switch in assemblies, etc. We use them for everything since our products are very size configurable.

This numbering scheme also better supports our tabulated drawing prints.

The "like" parts really are a family. Like a door header, we have several standard sizes, each has a part number in the same family. They only differ in length. Making separate part files for the 30 different sizes means changing 30 files when something changes for all of them like a mounting slot size. With configurations you make the change once. Now a different kind of door header would most likely get a new file and new family number.


Jason

SolidWorks 2007 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
SolidWorks 2008 SP0.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[rgrayclamps]

Hi, Jason:

I totally agree with both Kevin and Jeff regard part numbering scheme. SolidWorks is an object oriented visual database, it is best to use non-intelligent sequential numbering for objects of parts and assemblies.

At the company I work, we use the following sequential numbers:

P-00000001 to P-99999999 for part documents

A-00000001 to A-99999999 for assembly documents.

All the numbers are logged through a custom VB database program, which can automatically generate numbers.

We create a part document for each and every part, and an assembly document for each and every assembly. Each drawing document only contains one object (part or assembly). By doing this way, all the parts or assemblies are independent.

Also, we try to stay away from using configuration for parts or assemblies. Configuration was not originally intended for individual part or assembly. You can use it for other purpose, but it is not a good idea to use it for multiple parts or assemblies, becasue it violates normalization requirement of records (part or assembly) which is essential requirement to any database). We only use "Default" configuration for each part or assembly except when a part or assembly is deformable in use.

Good Luck!

Alex

 

[kcarpenter]

Well...you're "family" is a smart part number (not to be a smart$$). You know that 000004.XXX is a "family" for door frames and 000002.XXX is a "family" for door headers. It sounds as though you have some justification for using configurations. But again why can't it just be a straight number: 004531 with configurations of 003458, 000442, etc.? I can actually answer that: because you won't know what each number is in an assembly model. Which is why you have "families" or smart numbers. Tabulated drawing prints...I'm guessing those are charted drawings as we call them. A single drawing with a matrix for the correct part number based on dimensional variations. Again just a number in a matrix.

The power of your numbering DB isn't in it's ability to server you numbers automatically, but in that is must be able to create smart part numbers which creates complexity. If you really want to make it something worth while, store this "family" information as meta-data within your DB and search the DB to find a given part number. Not exactly a PDM, but good enough to let you do fundamental queries.

Again, nothing but my opinion. I like the fact that you're engaged enough with the system to want to make changes and improve it.

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Administrator
Invacare Corp.

 

[J-C]

Actually no, the numbers don't mean anything. The prefix is the next number in the database, regardless of what kind of part/assy it is.

000001.XXX
000002.XXX
000003.XXX
000004.XXX
etc...

So if I need a new number, it would be 000005.XXX.

But if need a family of parts, the suffix comes in. So if the header part is part number 000009, the finally part numbers for that family might be:

000009.001 (HEADER, 42.000 OPENING)
000009.002 (HEADER, 44.000 OPENING)
000009.003 (HEADER, 46.000 OPENING)
000009.004 (HEADER, 48.000 OPENING)
000009.005 (HEADER, 50.000 OPENING)

If they decide to add a 52.000 opening size, it becomes 000009.006. That's where the automatic part number database gets more difficult. Guess I need entry for choosing an existing part family to add to.

000010.XXX might a totally different part like a mounting bracket. Another mounting bracket used elsewhere might be 000025.XXX (Which ever number was next in the database). So the numbers aren't smart like how "1050" might be Screws, or "1060" might be Transformers.

As for the example with configurations with vastly different numbers, the problem with that is finding them. If I have a file named "105423.sldprt", and it has configurations for parts:

105423
235465
256854
300125

The problem is finding it. Users will be looking the file called 235465.sldprt with no idea that it's a configuration inside file 105423.sldprt. Most likely they will end up creating the separate file and now we'll have the part in two places.

We've been doing this a long time this way, just haven't automated it. And this is for a PDM project which we hope to implement in the near future.



Jason

SolidWorks 2007 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
SolidWorks 2008 SP0.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[ctopher]

The numbering that I have found that seems to work best for a lot of companies is having series for each type of part.
i.e.: (made up scheme)
1000 - Headers
2000 - Pins
3000 - Caps
etc

There could variations and dash numbers.
If there are a lot of variations, there could be a scheme of 10000, 20000, etc.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)
ctopher's blog

 

[fcsuper]

Jason,

I think I understand your goals, but I'd still advise against it unless you are the manufacturer of those headers and the only difference between each is size/number of positions. If you are not the manufacturer, then I think you are making Kevin's point without realizing it. Your system is still more liberial than most, but still has the potential to give you headaches later on.

As far as your problem with configurations hiding inside of parts, I can suggest one possible solution might be to rely on your PDM and/or PLM to track this information.

Matt
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
sw.fcsuper.com
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group

 

[kcarpenter]

Jason,
Thanks for the clarification, your scheme is certainly clearer to me now. I have a suggestion for you based on you implementing a PDM in the near future. Why not just use your part number DB to give/track the base number only, i.e. 000003, 000004, 000125, etc.? Leave off the .XXX seeing as it tells you nothing more than there's additional family numbers. Now in the PDM system you'll save your configurations and can then store the whole series of numbers. So when someone does a search for a 52.000 header and it doesn't exist the user would simply get the 000009 data set (drawing and model). Go to the configuration tab, add a new one to the sequentially running number (000009.006). Make the additions/changes, re-save it into the PDM system which would then capture the newly added configuration. Now it's visible, searchable, and allows your scheme to flow.

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Administrator
Invacare Corp.

 

[J-C]

PDM may solve the problem of part numbers hiding in configs. I still see it as somewhat confusing as the user would alway have to go back to the PDM to find the part he may already have open. And the base file name number not matching might be confusing.

Kevin, you're on the right track....I guess I'm looking for a way to program the part number scheme such that the user requesting the number can add to an existing family is deired, or create a whole new number. PDMWorks Enterprise may be the PDM system we go to and it doesn't appear that it can do this out of the box. Maybe it can be customized.

Jason

SolidWorks 2007 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2
SolidWorks 2008 SP0.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[kcarpenter]

PDM will most certainly solve finding anything you put in it as long as it's setup properly. The beauty of a PDM system is that it's integrated into your CAD (in this case SW). It's always available and it's meant to help control AND find your data, any data, not just CAD. Your PDM system should be the core for your data storage and retrieval.

Don't get all hung up on the family, again it's secondary to the base number. Let SW hold the family information in the configurations (you already do it now). The PDM will save all of the configuration names it finds in your model, create profile cards for them, and link them back to your base part number. It knows how to find the data sets for a given configuration. If someone has a copy of a model and begins to make a change to it, the integration should ask them if they want to check it out for change.

It's simple, Joe needs to create a new door frame as nothing like it exists. He pops into your part number program and gets a new base number, in the is case 000124 (as your P/N program assigns sequential base numbers only). Now he starts up SW, models the new door frame with all the configurations necessary. He then saves it into the PDM where it captures all the configurations and creates profile cards for each of them along with descriptions, file name (the actual name of the CAD files), user info., etc. He moves on and creates his tabulated drawing and saves it into the system. It gets released and is in production. Now 3 months later Jason comes along and is looking for a particular type of door frame. He searches the PDM for one and finds there is one (000124) which works but doesn't have the right size. He then checks it out, adds his configuration, updates the drawing and saves it back into the PDM thusly creating the profile card for his new configuration. It gets released and so on, and so on.

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Administrator
Invacare Corp.