PC based CNC for HBM 2

[sacem1]

Hi folks:

I have just bought a very nice and solid G&L floor type Horizontal Boring Mill wich originally had a NC control, well now it has nothing, the machine is in very good conditions but the control was dissapeared from it sometime ago, so now I own a non working HBM.

I need information about how to set up and install an alternative NC Control, I am thinking of a PC based system.

I've read about this equipment but do no t manage to get a hold on information and suppliers of the motors, locators and interfaces requiered, if some one can give a hand on this I appreciated.

SACEM1

 

[jbel]

If you google 'cnc retrofit' you will find tons of information. Many outfits will come into your facility and do a turnkey retrofit for you. I think this is the easieat way because someone with experience is doing the thing.

HTH

 

[CWSProgrammer]

Depending on where you are located, I'd highly recommend the folks at REA Technologies. They've been a great help with the Thermwood CNC Router I've been working with (a side note, avoid Thermwood Routers like The Plague. They don't adhere to any industry standards in their hardware configurations and are a real pain in the butt on even normal day-to-day operations, in addition to being inferior machines in terms of durability).

http://www.reatechnologies.com/index.htm

If you decide to go with these folks, ask specifically for Ron to check out your machine. He's the best guy over there, from my experience. And really knows his stuff.

Refitting a CNC machine can be really pricey, depending on how complex a system you're looking at--but that's all on the hardware end of it, the actual control software itself (from what I understand) isn't all that expensive in comparison.

The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken

 

[metfan]

Does anyone have experience with building a homemade CNC router? Also I'm looking for low budget hardware for such a project. Thanks

 

[jbel]

metfan,

Try

http://www.cnczone.com

there is good stuff there to point you in the right direction.

 

[EdDanzer]

We did a retrofit on a large HMC. We chose a Fagor control, partially for cost and it does not use ladder logic for the PLC function. I would not recommend this control as there were several problems uncovered, and one cannot be fixed so we have to work around it. Do not use CamSoft, tried it several year ago and they over sell it. We were to get a Fadal VMC with their new PC based control, but they are having problems perfecting it so we ended up with a Fanuc. After having a Fadal several years ago, and replacing a Haas, the Fanuc is a pain to use.

http://www.machinemate.com/

is a PC based control we have considered for our next machine retrofit.
If the drives and amplifiers are in good working order, you will save money by using them. Control and retrofit people always want to sell new drives. Our HMC has Allen Bradley AC servos and they have been more trouble than the older DC drives.

Good Luck

 

[sacem1]

Thanks for the replys folks, I've been on a holiday trip in Spain for the last 2 weeks and not been able to read your feedback.

The real problem is that down here in Peru, where I'm located, there is no real support for any NC or CNC control only MAZATROL had a dealer but it has shut down its offices and all the rest of equipment is just a show case of everything that has been manufactured in the world with no equipment as a popular setup, the idea of going PC based is that it seems that we will be able to try to solve the installation and maintenance ourselves more easily than in a closed package that makes you bring a technician all the way from Japan just to reset a relay ($8,000+ cost) and that's really happened to a friends machine shop VMC.

I have been checking the web sites as adviced and really all say their system is the best, maybe we do not want the best, just the easiest to setup and get going, our work really is just NC (point to point) more than curve or 3 axis displacements.

Cheers

SACEM1

 

[CWSProgrammer]

Your location does make things a bit difficult...

Short of purchasing an actual CNC machine (used or otherwise), or doing the massive amount of research required to learn how to build it yourself, you are (for lack of a more professional term) "screwed". Besides, depending on how big the machine is you're looking to retrofit (and judging from your description, it's fairly large), you're looking at spending between $20K (for your small-to-average-size CNC machine in the condition you're talking about) and $120K (for machines the size of what I'm working with, 10' x 40' travel on X and Y, 20" travel on Z) in parts and labor alone, much less actual travel pay + troubleshooting.

And, let's face it, without the control system, the machine is essentially a hunk of scrap metal.

There are just too many variables to worry about for very many people here to say, "Ah-ha! *This* is the solution for you!"...

The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it. -- H.L. Mencken

 

[EdDanzer]

Doing a retro fit on a machine without drives is more difficult and expensive. If your boring mill has rack and pinion drive on any axis it can be difficult to remove backlash. This type of retro fit requires mechanical skills, electrical skills and programming skills. The mechanical skills include being able to calculate the motor torque and rpm requirements, gearing calculations, design mounting brackets, and communicate how these mechanical items will work with the control for programming. The electrical skills are the ability to connect the wires, design the wire guide and protection equipment, and interpret how the mechanical and software will interact with the drives. The programming skills will be dependant on the control chosen. Some use ladder logic for PLC programming and other use other languages. Who ever does the PLC programming and sets up the drive parameters must be able to work with the mechanical and electrical people to solve problems as they happen.
With that said, I have a high school education and have completed 2 retro fits with only PLC programming help. My primary skill is mechanical stuff, with a fair knowledge of electrical, and some programming knowledge.
Good luck.

 

[sacem1]

CWSProgrammer:

Thanks for your straight answer, really the machine is a G&L 4" spindle 10' x 6' x 22" XYZ axes and really I bought it at scrap cost even though its practically with out use somehow along the way the main control got lost, stolen, destroyed or whatever and it just stood there unused.

I'm fairly confident that I will make it run and I'll keep you posted on it.

Keep looking for references on PC based controls that are reliable and not so difficult to implement, lets hope someone can steer me in the right direction.

Cheers

SACEM1

 

[MrTeutonic]

In your research, you might want to look at the Heidenhain CNC control. May be not the cheapest but might save you money overall:
- Single source package: Heidenhain offers scales - one of the best in industry, controls & servos
- Also works with Siemens servos
- It is easy to use - as it is developed for milling operations
- Nice (!) conversational control, manual/cycle/full CNC capability makes it easy to use & learn.

http://www.heidenhain.com

Good luck!

 

[sacem1]

Mr. Teutonic:
Even though it is not what I had in mind I've broused the web you recomended and it seems clear and straight forward so I've asked for the brochures and price lists to evaluate this option,
Thanks.

SACEM1

 

[map250r]

Hey Sacem1,

Just wondering - did you get anywhere with that machine?

If not, and if you are still interested in a pc control - look at linuxcnc.org. You will learn a lot along the way (whether you consider that good or bad), and AFAIK it's about as low-cost as you can get.

map250r

 

[sacem1]

Thanks for the new data, I have not started working on this project as we have been involved in more urgent things (a lot of work, now we are working round the clock) but I should be starting this work so that I have another machine to help with the workload.

I'll see your recomended website and see if i can get myself to start this job, it's incredible, almost a year has gone and have it laid aside.

Thanks

SACEM1

 

[sacem1]

I visited and surfed the web at

http://www.linuxcnc.org

and it REALLY has a lot to say about PC-based controllers for machine tools and other equipment.

Thanks map250r for the link and it is very interesting for anyone that has the desire to venture into that field.

It shure is worth looking at.

Cheers

SACEM1

 

[debco99]

Take a look at this link,We have retrofitted afew of them and they are the best I have worked with in 25 years.

http://www.schneider-num.ch/hosting/NUM/numweball.nsf/MainWebUSE?OpenFrameSet

If you need a quote get in touch.

Regards

Dave B

 

[z2000]

try contact SHARNOA. this is a small israeli company that manufactures CNC machines based on PC with self made operating system.

 

[TheRebel344]

there are many ways of throwing money at troubles like this. There are also many ways of not throwing money at it. I retrofitted a bridgeport series 2 NC mill with gecko drives, some steppers from homeshopcnc.com, a PC interface card from CNC4PC.com, and my desktop computer I am useing now. Accuracy is overkill with microstepping. Steppers = great accuracy and cost, but their drawback is they are slow and could lose steps in too heavy of a cut. Servo motors are much faster, can handle heavier cuts without losing steps, but cost 10 times more. I am just prototyping and making stuff for myself so theres no pressure on me to be moving too fast.

 

[Colega]

I have a machine wich uses OPEN CNC from MDSI, its good. I havent tried the Enhanced machine control from linuxcnc.org, but it looks nice.

Use servos for the machine axes. I wouldnt advice using stepper motors in a machine tool unless its a WEDM or some tool that doesnt recive the impact from cutting forces.

Good luck.

Colega

http://www.corporacioneg.com