PCB Contruction and Assembly Services: Who's your favourite?

[deef]

Hello,

As the topic describes, basically I'm looking for a company that can manufacture PCB boards for me. We're talking from the ground up. In a perfect world, I'd like to supply them with Gerber files for the PCB, and Digikey part numbers cross-referenced to component numbers in the Gerber files. I pay, and they send me my boards etched and cut with the parts soldered on

Am I dreaming? I've never done this kind of this before so I'm a little naive of the process. It'd be most convenient if I could find a company that operated as I described above. Does anyone have a favorite company they've worked with in the past that they'd be willing to tell me about?

Here's a little bit of background about my design:
- total PCB area of 3in^2
- production quantity ~25pcs, depending on price. 200pcs maximum.
- 6mil trace spacing
- two copper layer with silkscreen/soldermask
- double sided SMD
- approx 70 vias
- approx qty 50 0603 SMD parts (therefor, approx qty 100 0603 SMD pins). Nothing smaller than 0603.
- approx 5 other SMD parts, SOT-23-5/3 package, for example.
- two TQFP parts, fine leaded, approx 80pins
- NO through hole, or BGA parts.

Like I said, it'd be easiest if the company took care of ordering the parts (I'd be more than happy to supply Digikey/Mouser part numbers).

Does anybody have a general idea of the cost, from past experiences?

Thanks a bunch, people!
deef

 

[itsmoked]

Well.. hmmm.

There are a lot of companies who will do that. Your quantities are pretty low to garner much interest from them.

As you probably realize the norm for small fry like you and me would be to;

1) Find an assembler. Local is good!
2) Find a board house that works for you. Order the boards.
3) Compile your parts list.
4) Order from your parts list.
5) Receive the parts and the boards.
6) Provide them to your assembler.
7) Test, package, and ship.


These are all really intensive but short tasks. It takes me about 1/2 a day to inventory and then order all the parts for any of my products of that volume. Then every other step may take an hour or less with the exception of test which depends on your product and your customers.

You will likely find zero interest in runs of that size, (under 100pcs). Furthermore the setup charges are going to bite you hard. You really should try for at least a 100pcs.

You might find a small company that will do your testing for you who will then handle everything else back from that too.

What I'm saying is this isn't much work, so lots of assemblers who are itching to buy your parts for you,(and <cough> mark them up), wouldn't blink at ordering the pcbs too it's just another email after all.

How do you plan to test them? Have you made a test jig? Or are you just going to wing-and-a-prayer it?

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[deef]

Thanks for your reply.

I don't understand what you mean by "assemblers" though. Are these people who I can send my manufactured PCBs, and purchased parts to simply to manually assemble the boards? Know of any decent assemblers? This doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.

I totally agree with you about the quantity. Like I said, I could easily be convinced to increase the number of ordered boards being that I WILL be hurt by setup fees, but I was kinda hoping to get a couple quotes going and determining price cuts versus quantity ordered then making my decision from that.

I've already had PCB manufactured for this device, and I've hand assembled two test-boards already. So testing is complete and everything is finalized. I'm just trying to avoid having to hand assemble more boards personally as I've done two and know how not-fun it is. Haha

Thanks again, though. I appreciate your comments.

Anyone else have any other ideas?

 

[itsmoked]

Testing.. Generally you need to test EVERY board not just the first two. It may be you can just power them up but you may also need calibration or ? That's what I'm referring to. Usually a test jig is cobbled up to make this process as quick as possible.

I know what you mean on the hand assembly! I hand built some devices that had a really nasty SMD connector that took 40 minutes to get on correctly. There were four on each unit and I hand built twenty units.

Check with Accutrace(Roy) tell'em I sent you.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[deef]

Oh yeah. The design incorporates wireless data transmission, so, once firmware is loaded on the device bench testing can be done without a jig (for the most part).

I'll look into Accutrace. Thanks for the suggestion, and I'll mention your name as well if I decide to go in that direction.

Have you only had PCBs manufactured by Accutrace? Or do they do assembly work aswell?

Thanks again,
deef

 

[itsmoked]

I have had thousands of PCB's made by them but not, personally, had them do assembly. A close associate has them do assembly for his products on a regular basis.

All assemblers will often leave you wanting on some little thing and that is why you should really look locally as if they have a question or you want to set them up to do your testing you can easily support them. It's also nice for them to just drop off your pieces when they've finished them, none of which is possible at a distance. I pay a local company (more) than necessary for those conveniences.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

You mention the testing being wireless once the firmware is loaded... have you considered what happens if the firmware load has issues? Let's say there's a hidden bad solder joint. Then what? You need electrical testing to find these problems, though if your desired quantity is so low doing it yourself is definitely the most cost effective way to go.

Expect to pay about $100 for PCB etch setup fees. Assembly will be roughly $0.015/point, where a point is a component lead or pin, as well as a roughly $100 setup fee for the pick-n-place machines.

You're looking at about $5 per assembled board, plus the setup fees. For such a small board and the limited quantity, I'd assemble the things myself just to save me the shipping turn-around time. Add in component cost and acquisition fees, you could be looking at $500+ just for 25 boards... something to consider.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[OperaHouse]

2 cents a point....... A place I dealt with figured 37 cents a component as a cost to install (not including component cost) and that was years ago.

 

[ScottyUK]

Wow - $0.37 per part? Was that hand assembled? IIRC that is way higher than we based pick & place costings on in the thick film hybrids business, even on our slowest line. From memory (it was early '90s) our worst offender for assembly costs was mounting wound components onto hybrid substrates, but anything which had to be manually mounted was bad news for cost.


----------------------------------

Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[OperaHouse]

Would you do it for that??????? 50 x $.37 = $18.5 x 25 = $462. That is a hard way to make a living. I don't think anyone wants someone to come off the street and hand them a job they have no control over. A lot of quality issues that will end to finger pointing. Don't even ask for a lot less than 100, just shows that you are not serious.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Opera, I could crank out 25 boards with those components in less than a day using my trusty Weller WES50 hobby iron, and $500 would be a nice bit of extra pocket change for the weekend. Build them on Saturday, spend the cash on Sunday

That being said, $0.37/component sounds like robbery. My cost of $0.015/point was from a previous job for 500 boards, each about 1" x 0.5" (8 mil trace/space, TSSOP/0805 packages). The cost per point would have been the same for 50 boards, but the setup fees would have been difficult to amortize over such a small number of units. If memory serves, I paid $75 for p-n-p setup, $90 for PCB etch setup. There was no per component cost, just per point.



deef, unless you have tight control over quality (which you never will for 25 units), go with either doing it yourself or machine p-n-p. I had 500 units done by machine and 500 of another product done by hand. On the by-hand units, I had a failure rate of about 80% on the oscillators (all 1,000 for both batches oscillators came off of the same reel, so it wasn't a bad batch). My guess was they were trying to crank through them as fast as possible so they turned up the heat on their irons to max for fastest melt time... and cooked the oscillators in the process of installing them.


Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[deef]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I really appreciate the different suggestions. Being that I've never done this before, I'm totally open to suggestion.

That being said, I think I'm just going to go the route of machine p-n-p, as macgyvers2000 just suggested. I know, I'll be suffering with the setup fees, but I'll probably end up placing a higher volume order (200-300) units.

I'm still open to any other ideas though. Anyone else have anything in mind?

Thanks again,
deef

 

[felixc]

Check who in your area provides electronics assembly services. All other things being equal the closer they are the better it is, as you will be able to support them in case of trouble. Do not hesitate to ask to several places, as the prices vary a lot from place to place. Why? It depends on their customer base and what their requirements have forced them to do in terms of procedures. And also if they are geared or not to properly support small quantities. I have seen differences of 3 to 1 in prices quoted by different companies.

Have your prices quoted by the assembly houses before having your pc boards produced. They may prefer to have your boards panelized in order to optimize costs (theirs and yours).

 

[itsmoked]

Yep and next week all the quotes will change dramatically.. It depends on the work in house, and projected, the day you ask for it.

I've also watched with amusement as a friend tried to whittle down the assembly cost for one of his products. The assembler said because of this, and that, your assembly costs more. So he ran an entire design cycle to eliminate every aspect that was running the cost up. When done he ran another lot through them.. They charged 14% more. He was not happy. But I know they were just backed up, so cranked their prices.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[felixc]

Where are you located Deef? Some of us may just have the right names for you to start with.

 

[deef]

I'm located in Western Canada, British Columbia. Specifically, Vancouver

Haha, and I'll take any names -- whether they're right or not!

Thanks,
deef

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Oh, BC... check out

http://www.myropcb.com

Great rates, 25 piece lot proto sizes, multi-layer at 6 mil trace/space, etc. They claim to do flex circuits now, though I haven't tested that part of their service... I stepped away from flex circuits right about the time they started to offer it.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Oh yeah, send your request to Robert and tell 'em Dan from Hi-Tec Designs sent ya

(No, I don't get kickbacks, I just want them to know I appreciate their quality service by sending people their way).

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[itsmoked]

I thought you lived in So. Cal Dan?

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.-

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Just moved from central Florida to the Baltimore/D.C. area about 6 months ago, actually. I'd love SoCal (at least the weather... I hear it's the land of fruits and nuts ;-) ), but so far no job has taken me there (at least not one that could afford me at the same time I could afford the housing.

Side note... I STILL don't know how people afford anything out there. I hear horror stories of multiple engineering-salary people under one roof just to live in a nice place. I don't want to drive 2 hours to get into work, either. Some day...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com