PDM - Which one? 3

[CajunCAD]

I am currently looking for an enterprise wide document management solution. I have looked up previous posts on this subject and while learning some things I would like to get some user input.

The PDM software I am looking for needs to be able to:
-handle SolidWorks files (looking at Gold Partners)
-handle MS Office, PDF, image, Protel, etc... files
-routing/approval of documents
-e-mail notifications
-web based to allow remote users to retrieve data (without installing a client application on remote machines - we would like to allow some customers to "log in" and see certain data - would also like to involve customers in non-conformance routings/approvals)
-ability to link production/quality documents to a part / PO / Job Order / Work Order / etc... (need to present traceability to clients upon demand)
-ability to link to ERP system thru custom programming (Made2Manage is our ERP system)
-file security - once a document is checked-in to the vault it cannot be modified unless checked out - can't be checked back in until it has been approved

I put together the long list of what I want to generate good responses. Any experience, good or bad, will be appreciated.

Louis

 

[Standing]

Louis,
SolidWorks PDM\Works will handle the files just fine. Not the rest, like linking to ERP. Ask your VAR about PDM Advanced server and the Web portal. That might do the trick. You could also look into SmarTeam, but we had trouble with it because we did not understand it when we set it up.


Bradley

 

[PDMAdmin]

PDMWorks can handle SolidWorks files (obviously) as well as non-SW files. Routing and approval could be more of a problem; it depends on how rigorous your company wants to be about it.

PDMWorks can do e-mail notifications under certain circumstances, but if you want them in reference to routing and approval, that may not be feasible.

The PDMWorks web portal is very "bare bones" and really not a suitable substitute for the client software (i.e. you can't select assembly components with the assembly file), plus it doesn't come standard with PDMWorks; you have to buy it with Advanced Server.

The ability to link other documents to SW documents is no problem.

Most likely, you would not be able to successfully link PDMWorks to an ERP system. We have tried to link it to Agile, and we haven't found a way to do it so far. It would all depend on how flexible your ERP system is, and how much of it could access the PDMW API.

PDMWorks uses file ownership to determine what can be done to a file. As an example, you could use lifecycles to establish ownership on the files at various stages, then release ownership when the changes had been approved. The check-in process could then re-establish ownership on the files to avoid unapproved check-ins.

 

[J-C]

PDMs we were considering:

ProductCenter(

http://www.softtech.com)

Eigner PLM (Now owned by Agile) (

http://www.agile.com)

Matrix
DBWorks (

http://www.mechworks.com)

ProductCenter, Eigner, & Matrix have Solidworks integrations but they are not the best at it. Productcenters was not bad, Eigners was ok, and Matrix's was the worst. Matrix was probably the most costly of the 3, followed by Eigner, and then ProductCenter.

DBWorks is more of a SolidWorks based PDM but they do handle other file types well. Very customizable with decent Solidworks integration. Interface takes getting used to.

All of these have web access I believe but all require a windows client to deal with Solidworks file checkin,out, etc...

All this depends on if you want Electronic Document management (EDM) or Product Data Management (PDM or PLM). Those I mentioned above are mostly PDMs with DBWorks being borderline.

For EDMs, there's Meridian & Adept.

Jason Capriotti
Smith & Nephew, Inc.

 

[CajunCAD]

Right now I think the top three contenders we are considering are SmartTeam, Synergis Adept, and Agile PLM.
I am in the process of contacting these companies to get their literature, demos, sales pitch, etc...

 

[RawheadRex]

Hi,

We currently have a patchwork of different systems. PDMWorks is our SW file management tool and handles this stuff just fine along with legacy data. It's pretty useless for workflow management and the like though.

I have had rather extensive experience with implementing and utilizing SmarTeam which was both difficult and trying but one could see its advantages when taking an objective look at it. I don't think I have ever heard of an implementation that was without headache though.

Currently we're looking into Agile which I was told is a bit less painful to implement. They are supposed to demo here at some point in the very near future so I will try and make some time to post back if you're interested in some info or opinions on it that aren't hearsay.

Best Regards,


Chris Gervais
Sr. Mechanical Designer
Lytron Corp.

 

[CajunCAD]

RawheadRex I am definitely interested in opinions and experiences. There is a possibility that I may be able to go to SW2005 to meet with multiple PLM vendors at once. Unfortunately SmartTeam and Agile aren't listed as exhibitors.

Once we make a decision I will update with our selection and why.

 

[automationbabe]

You may want to look at Arena Solutions as well. It works with PDMWorks and is much cheaper than Agile.

http://www.arenasolutions.com

 

[ctopher]

We use PDMW, and like it.

 

[TheTick]

We use Meridian, by Cyco <

http://www.cyco.com>.

It is not a SolidWorks partner product. It does handle SolidWorks files, including associativity in assemblies and drawings.

Meridian doesn't have all the SW related bells and whistles, but from an enterprise-wide perspective, it was the best solution for our company.

 

[CajunCAD]

What SW bells & whistles is it missing?
I am familiar with Cyco and used their AM-Workflow product from 1993-1999 with AutoCad files.

 

[macduff]

llafleur,
When you purchase SW Office Professional (which is about 4,995 a seat) it come with PDMWorks to manage your SW files as well as autocad and many other file extensions. The nice thing about PDMWorks is it stays current with SW releases. We currently use SW as our primary CAD system with PDMWorks as our PDM.

Hope this helps,

Macduff
Meggitt Airdynamics Inc.
Dell Precision 370
SW2004 Pro SP4.1
XP Pro SP2.0
NIVIDA Quadro FX 1300

 

[J-C]

I thought Solidworks Office Pro was $5500.

Jason Capriotti
Smith & Nephew, Inc.

 

[potter87]

Take a look at Conisio. We compared it to Adept a while back and found out that Conisio was with SolidWorks much longer and worked inside of Windows Explorer. After comparing the two we chose Conisio.

http://www.conisio.com/en/index.htm

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/partners/PartnerDetails.html?ID=1032

http://www.conisio.com/en/company.htm

 

[kcarpenter]

Sounds like SmarTeam can do everything you're asking for. We're going to start doing some workflow stuff in the very near future. We already use the web base products to share drawing information with our shop floors globally. Replication is next on my list of "to do's" to China facilities allowing global collaboration and design.

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Specialist
Invacare Corp.

 

[macduff]

kcarpenter,
Are you using Smarteam with PDMworks? If so, I would like to talk to you more on that issue. Also, How long was the implementation of Smarteam?

Best,

Macduff
Meggitt Airdynamics Inc.
Dell Precision 370
SW2004 Pro SP4.1
XP Pro SP2.0
NIVIDA Quadro FX 1300

 

[kcarpenter]

macduff,
No, we don't use ST with PDMW. Our implementation was done back in 1997 and took about 5-6 months at that time. Business processes, data structure, field mappings, etc. all took some time to figure out. But today I would think an implementation would take less, more like 4-5 months depending on how complex and custom the install becomes (this would include additional modules of the product like workflow, FDA, Web based tools, etc.) It all really depends on the number of seats, data being captured/stored, and additional features of the product you want to use.


Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Specialist
Invacare Corp.

 

[engAlright]

Our company is also shopping around for PDM solutions as we currently use PDMW but are finding it difficult to work with across multiple sites.

I see SmartTeam mentioned frequently on this site but I've been scared away by all the reports of problem-ridden implementations, even resulting in the software having to be shelved. Is this a realistic fear?

Also - is it difficult to move your data from PDMW to SmartTeam (I know it's difficult to move it from PDMW to other PDM/PLM systems)? Can SmartTeam run over top of PDMW?

 

[kcarpenter]

I think the most common reasons PDM implementations fail are because of poor planning, bad information gathering, or insufficient testing prior to rollout. No software is without it shortcomings, but the better you prepare yourself the less likely those will stifle your installation. Having a knowledgeable ST VAR is very important also.

PDMW is based on MS SQL database if I remember correctly. ST used to be able to run on this DB but recommends using Oracle as the DB. You should be able to export the data from your existing DB and import it via the bulk loader in ST getting the data housed and working.

I would guess to say that ST would work with PDMW, but it would pretty much be a waste to continue using your PDMW if you've got ST. The amount of customization needed would probably make it not worth the effort and expensive.

Please keep in mind that ST isn’t sold as a small mom and pop shop tool mainly because it’s not exactly cheap. But if the ROI is acceptable it might be the right tool given your needs.

I talk to potential ST customers often throughout the year because of our relationship with ST and VAR. I would be happy to discuss anything regarding ST personally (i.e. one on one) provided I'm not too busy of course. Drop me an email and we can arrange something.


Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Specialist
Invacare Corp.

 

[CajunCAD]

PDM search update:

Local VAR thinks SmarTeam is much more than we need along with the associated maintenance and cost

Local VAR is getting set up to represent Conisio - wainting to see something here

Looked at Arena Solutions and their downfall is the document vault is on a web server in their facility

Saw a web presentation on Adept today and it looks promising

Spoke with the local VAR for Cyco today - doing more research

Agile looks good on its website but I am hearing that is definitely overkill and quite expensive to purchase and maintain