PE doing work under co. owner's Home Inspection License 2

[jdaw74]

I am a PE doing work in NY for a home inspection company as my second job. The owners want me to sign my name on the inspection reports that are delivered to the buyers, and place the owner's home inspector's license number under that. They claim this is perfectly legit under the PE exemption of the Home Inspection Licensing Act. They also claim that my license would be protected under the owner's professional liability insurance, even though neither my license number nor name is listed on his policy. Reading the FAQs on the NYS Office of the Professions site (referenced) leads me to believe that this is not legit and that my PE license cannot be insured under the owner's HI license.
One last thing...the business cards the company gave me identifies me as a PE and shows my license number.
Smells fishy...does anyone else agree?

 

[MikeHalloran]

Run.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[diarmud]

I've seen this advert in Rochester on Craigslist.

I checked with the NYS licensing board and they referred me to the law and the Home Inspection Board.

While not a lawyer, I believe the law allows PE's to conduct partial home inspections if they are doing the work tied to their primary professional engineering duties. I think this is the PE exemption, not doing it as a primary function but for example, inspecting a structural member.

I honestly don't think the the exemption applies to this circumstance, I don't think your insurance will cover you and I don't think their insurance will cover you because (I assume), you will be a subcontractor.

Their insurance might cover you if you were their employee, if which case why do they have to use your PE license number?

They may honestly feel their interpretation is correct but I don't.

Ask them if they will give you money to pay for you to hire a lawyer to review everything and to give you an opinion.

Or check with the PE Licensing Board.

I would not do it. Nationally, ASHI (

http://www.ashi.com)

stated years ago that 25% of home inspectors are sued (I think), you may want to check with them.

Good luck.

 

[LobstaEata]

Most profssional liability policies ask in their applications whether the insured engineer intends to provide services for home inspection. This is due to the fact brought up by diarmud that home inspection services result in one of highest probablities of being sued in the industry. Lawyers typically will sue both the company and the responsible engineer. If you remain an employee of the company throughout the term of litigation, you probably will be covered. One of the more crummy legal tactics used is that the primary company that you are working for may also be invited to the party, unless there is a written liability waiver between the companies. Lawyers like to search out the deep pockets.

 

[Ron]

There are many reasons that this is wrong! Follow MikeHalloran's advice...Run!

 

[jdaw74]

Thank you to everyone on this post. My conscience says this is an unethical practice, and you kind folks confirmed that for me. If the FAQ page didn't explicitly state "A Professional Engineer may not provide home inspection services under the exemption if they are an owner, employee or subcontractor of a general business corporation or "Inc.". Under this scenario they would need to obtain a home inspection license.", then I would be more apt to get a lawyer to review this. My company certainly will not pay for this!! I also put a request to the licensing board and will let you all know if/when I get a response.
Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Ron]

jdaw74....as a licensed professional engineer, the work that you do, whether residential, commercial, institutional or otherwise, pulls in some aspect of the engineering law in your state. Further, if your company is not authorized as an engineering business, then you can't provide engineering services for them and they can't offer engineering services to the public.

It sounds as though the company wants to use your designation at a PE to make its services seem more technical or at a higher degree of competence than its "home inspector" competitors without the benefit of an engineering license. Unless they make you an officer of the corporation and qualify it as an engineering business entity, then that is illegal in many states. NY is a progressive licensing state, so I would expect it would be illegal there, but you should check.

Also keep in mind that when you identify yourself as a PE, you are held to a higher standard of care than a "home inspector", because of your greater educational requirements and rigorous licensing. It takes more be a PE than it does to do a bunch of home inspections by an ASHI checklist and then take their exam. There is no parity between the designations. All of that increases your personal liability, not just that of the company.

Bottom line....if they want to use your PE designation, have them qualify properly through the state, indemnify you for your professional actions, and compensate you accordingly. Otherwise, don't use the PE title or provide engineering services on their behalf.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Run - FAST!!

 

[PEinc]

One of the owners of my company is not a PE. Therefore, I could not get my company authorized to provide engineering services in NY State. I doubt that the home inspection company could be authorized either. By having your name and PE info on their business card, the home inspection company is at least offering to provide engineering services without authorization. You are opening yourself to disciplinary action from the NYS Dept. of Education.

 

[jdaw74]

Yikes. Ron, you hit it right on the head. They are using my license to attract more clients, without any additional compensation or protection to me as compared to the non-PE HIs at the company. PEinc, thanks for your experience. Obviously, I am ditching this company. They have many dishonest practices, and I would love to blow the whistle. In my 15 years of PE experience, I have never found this to do any good. But our profession needs to have businesses that are posing as engineering firms like this eliminated. Can I file an anonymous complaint?

 

[Ron]

jdaw74...yes,you can file a complaint. Check with your state board to see if you can file anonymously. It would be a credit to our profession if you would do so.

Good luck and congrats on recognizing a bad situation.

 

[jdaw74]

Thanks again, guys. I ended up quitting the company and this is the reply I got:

"I don't understand your excuse. You promised this would not happen again. the other PE's employed by this co. never had issues with us and they are PE's. If you're uncomfortable with a specific job, you should let me know. Did something happen in the field that I'm unaware of? I now look like an ass for re-hiring you. This was your only alternative to quit? I am totally unaware of this law that you're reading about and not happy at your approach on the phone."

This confirms that I am doing the right thing. If you question someone who is doing something wrong, they always get defensive. Should be an interesting week! Thanks again for all your input.

 

[EddyC]

I'll offer my opinion:

a) The homeowner's are paying your employer for the services, so that's where they will go first with any complaints.

b) They can also go after you, since you are prominently identified on the reports that your employer supplies to the homeowners.

c) See if your employer's insurance covers you under its umbrella. Ask for a letter stating such from the insurance carrier.

d) If the employer's carrier won't cover you, ask your employer to compensate you for a personal insurance policy.

e) Let the employer worry about whether they are in conformance with the law in how they provide their services to their customers, as I don't feel this issue affects you directly.

Regards.

 

[Ron]

EddyC...I understand this is a moot point since jdaw74 has already resigned; however, your last point needs some discussion.

As the only licensed engineer in that company, he would be expected to make sure the company is in compliance with the engineering licensing statute, so he cannot just plead ignorance if the company decides not to comply with the licensing law. He is the de facto qualifying agent for the company.

 

[PEinc]

Very good, Ron.

 

[jdaw74]

Thanks, EddyC. My employer does not have me covered under their policy, and they say they don't need to. They will most definitely not pay for me to pick up my own insurance.
As far as letting my employer worry about the legalities, as a PE I feel like I should hold ethics above all else, and if my employer is using me to do something that is unethical or illegal, then I would expect that I would be just as accountable for it. Not to mention that my conscience would just not allow it!!! I am not the only PE in the company, however, there are 3 more who are seemingly ignorant of the law based on what they've been told by the employer. It hurts to see it happen, really.

Here is the language directly from the State:

"If the PE is holding himself out to the public as an engineer by having "PE" after his name, or his engineering license number on his business card, or any other type of print or electronic advertising that will identify him as an engineer then he should not be working for an "INC" or any other firm that is not authorized to provide engineering services. If the individual does not hold himself out in any way as an engineer then he can work for this home inspection firm but he MUST have his OWN home inspectors license which he can automatically get because he his a PE. He must file an application with DOS. He cannot work under the owners home inspectors licence. He needs his own license as well."

My mother always told me, if you feel like you are doing something wrong, you are. I feel much better since resigning. Thanks again to all who provided valuable input!

 

[Ron]

jdaw74....kudos and good luck. You did the right thing and the profession needs more engineers with your guts. Go brother.

 

[buzzp]

Ethically, you must turn them in. If we want things like this to go away, then people need to start speaking up and taking action. They are not going to get severely punished but they need to know the law. It is always different when it can affect one personally. I would write it up in a neutral, factual manner, sign it and send it in the mail to the state. Your license requires this of you.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Probably run - I had a lawyer check NY's requirements ---

His head was spinning worse than mine. IF you don't understand it or get it in writing - get out....