PE Exam Experience

[bbookz]

Hello,

I've been doing structural design for about 2 1/2 years now. I work for a small company and it is my first job. I have a few great mentors and have learned a ton since starting work. I was the first young engineer without several years of experience to be hired by the company. The problem is that because of the volume of work we see and the fact that the vice principal is the only senior engineer that reviews work the level of quality control is low.

This has caused me a lot of stress and anxiety. I often find myself looking at jobs I worked on months earlier when they go under construction and seeing a lot of minor errors. I have caught many of my own mistakes, but I feel very responsible for each project and this has weighed heavily on me. The company seems happy with my performance but I dread the results of my mistakes. I think most of the errors I make are from a lack of experience rather than technical ability. Still, I wish calcs were reviewed from time to time or at least a comprehensive drawing review. Do managers in other company's occasionally spot check their engineers design?

That was a lot of background. I feel generally burnt out with design and am thinking about leaving my company after having worked for 3 years for a job doing project management. I would love to spend more time working in the field seeing how things actually get built. My question is would doing construction management count towards the 4 years engineering experience required to take the PE. My thoughts are that if there is a PE in the company it should count.

Any imput or advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[AlmostPE]

I only had 1 year of design experience. The rest was only project management and technician work (soil testing and stuff). I had 1 letter from an engineer (non PE), 1 from a geologist (PG), 1 PE and they let me take the exam.

 

[DaveAtkins]

bbookz,

As long as you are working under the supervision of a PE, the experience should count.

But back to your original comments--I went through EXACTLY what you are going through at the beginning of my career (22 years ago). I worried A LOT about missing things, causing failures, killing people, etc. Let me assure you, you will get past these feelings. As you gain more experience, you will gain confidence in your work product and will worry less. In the meantime, ASK QUESTIONS of your mentors--they should be willing to help you out!

And while I know that failures DO occur in structures, they are extremely rare, and most often occur during construction. A wise engineer once told me, "don't worry so much about getting everything worked out down to the nth degree; just make sure that what you are doing is CONCEPTUALLY correct."

I put it like this when I talk to young engineers: choosing a W 18 X 35 where you should have chosen a W 21 X 44 won't kill anyone--but choosing a 2 X 12 where you should have chosen a W 21 X 44 will kill someone.

I hope this helps!

DaveAtkins

 

[JAE]

DaveAtkins,

Good points. I would add that a good way to think of your structures is NOT that they are a bunch of beams and column connected together.

Rather: Your structure consists of numerous CONNECTIONS that happen to be linked by beams and columns.

Most failures occur in connections.

 

[Atomic25]

You can be out in the construction industry and as long as you're under a PE, and are in RESPONSIBLE CHARGE, you qualify to take the exam. Though, IMHO, it will be much harder for you to pass it unless you're in an environment that is constantly dealing with broad structural design. Typically, being out in construction just doesn't provide the experience to pass the exam, though you will have a great perspective of how things go together.

Hard to say if you're getting adequate mentoring, but the senior engineer sounds like a major ethical foul ball. He is supposed to be checking your work, not just putting a stamp on it. This is basic ethics requirements for PE's. So to directly answer your question, YES, managers in our firm review the EIT's designs.

If it were me, I would take that 2.5 years of experience to move to a better design firm. Pass the SE1 and maybe SE2, then consider moving to project management

 

[MarcbSE]

The supervising PE should always be reviewing the design calculations and drawings prior to signing them. I fully realize that this does not happen frequently enough in many firms, but that is no excuse.

I would still review the calculations and drawings prepared by an intern working for me even after they took the PE exam, right up until they received their own PE number. It might only be a cursory review at that point, but a review none the less.

 

[msquared48]

Every time I look at the newspaper I'm reminded of the seriousness of our profession. You cannot ignore or forget that, lest you run the risk of complacency. There is no froom for that in our profession. You are normal. Good luck.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[archeng59]

my intern experience was much the same. I was hired by a sole proprietor who was generally out of the office marketing the firm. He was rarely available for reviewing my work or asking questions except late at night or on weekends. I'd leave my work on his desk for review and ask him to look at specific items I wasn't certain about. We "corresponded" by notes to each other more than we did face to face. I spent alot of time reviewing his old project drawings and files to see how he designed things before he hired me. I attended seminars and met other engineers that I could discuss various issues and concepts. By the end of my first four years, I felt pretty good about most things and knew I still had more to learn. In my opinion, the fact that you are concerned is a great sign that you will be a quality PE.

Now I am licensed and own my firm. I review everything my intern designs. It's hard to make time to meet with him. I gotta market the firm and design, too. But if he comes to my desk with a question or lets me know we need to talk, I make time for him. I told him to ask questions or I will assume he knows what to do. If you are not sure, go see your supervisor.

 

[bbookz]

Thanks everyone for the advice, there seams to be a wide range of opinions. Based on what I've heard I'll probably give design another shot, but working at another company. At least until I earn my PE. I've learned a lot where I am but it has been stressful being inexperienced and having such a low level of oversight. I don't want someone learing over my shoulder every minute, but I would really like more input from my supervisors and regular spot checks of my designs. I want to work somewhere that has a formal quality control procedure. Do you think a larger company may be a better fit?

 

[MarcbSE]

I don't think you can make any absolute statements whether a larger or smaller company is a better fit. Many smaller companies (like mine) have well defined quality control procedures as do many large companies. Obviously you can find both small and large companies that don't do much QC either.

What area are you located in?

 

[DaveAtkins]

I have worked for three large companies, and three small companies during my career. At this stage of my career, I am glad to be working for a large company. A large company DOES have more procedures, usually has better benefits, and is, in short, just more professional. The flip side--a large company DOES have more procedures, which can get in the way of efficiency on occasion.

As a young engineer, if you join a large company, make sure you won't be "lost in the shuffle." And make sure you won't be stuck doing one line of work. Get varied experience--this will benefit you in the long run.

DaveAtkins

 

[Atomic25]

Dont aim for either a large or small company. Formal QC policies often get cast aside, so dont assume they actually follow their own procedures. You need to aim for a company with intelligent and ethical engineers. This is sometimes very difficult to determine in an interview. Try to see some of their recent work, and try to determine how much your supervisor knows. See if any of the knowledgeable guys will be in the trenches with you. There's a lot of older engineers out there with a lot of credentials that do nothing but rear end engineering. wish you the best of luck

 

[msquared48]

After many years of design over a wide range of situations and materials, believe it or not, an experienced structural engineer does not have to look at the calculations to feel if there are major problems. Even some of the minor ones can be detected without relying on the calcs. So, do not assume that you are not being checked.

I frequentsly would get into discussions with the other project engineers and we would go into the "What If" mode on several of our projects, then discuss the suggestions. Learned a lot and got to see things form others points of view. (I did not work for HP)

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering