PE license by exam???? 4

[CarolinaPE]

Someone asked me the other day if my PE was "by exam". How the heck else can one earn a PE license? I understand and have gotten a license in other states "by comity" but I do not know of any other way to get that first license other than taking the test.

 

[vooter]

A long time ago you could buy a P.E. license from Vermont and from Washington, D.C. This is what I've heard from the old guys in the office (those who are older than 60).

There's a lot of old bad blood surrounding this issue. Every now and then there's an anecdote about one of the "Green Mountain Boys" in management who would proudly display his purchased Vermont P.E. license - though he was working nearly exclusively in New York, and the sum of his work consisted of project management and planning. ...the geezer telling the story was kind of ticked that he spent six months prepping for the exam...

I suspect that there are countries with boards of engineers who award the P.E. or similar based on demonstrated experience/excellence, just not in the US and Canada and the UK.

I don't see anything wrong with boards of experienced graybeards evaluating an engineer's work and declaring him/her as "one of us." But I sure do see the logistical and beaurocratic nightmarish experience this would be.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Many states "grandfathered" practicing engineers (without exams) who met various combinations of education and work experience. This was phased out in South Carolina in the 1970's.

For more on current requirements, on a state by state basis, see the link at this faq765-1162

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[metengr]

I would agree with vooter. Several old timers that I know of had obtained their PE license years ago by simply graduating from an accredited four year engineering college and submitting an application for licensure after x years of work experience.

 

[zdas04]

I think that the examples above were all transitional steps from free-market to government oversight of certain engineering functions. A guy I know (about 55 years old) got his PE in Texas when they first formed the board of licensure. He only had to show his acredited degree and document his 5 years experience. This probably took place in the late '70's or early '80's. Now he has a PE in Texas that is not transferable to any other state.

In about 10-15 more years all of the transitional PE's will be out of the profession and every PE in the US will have taken the exams. People will still be having this discussion for another 50 years beyond that.

David

 

[vooter]

Here's some interesting stuff on the history of professional engineering registration:

http://www.ncees.org/introduction/about_ncees/history.php

pretty much the same thing at

http://www.engineeringlicense.com/licensure/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Engineer

 

[BJC]

Texas until fairly recently did not require a written exam. Getting a PE in Texas was then viewed as getting the good old boys to let you in the club. I met and worked with many engineers from Texas that were good but there must have been some duds out there.
I think they went to an exam because many Texas PEs were being refused comity in other states and to improve their image.

 

[StressGuy]

BJC - how long ago is "recently"? I don't personally know of a PE within the last ten years who hasn't gotten their PE by exam.

Now, as far as I know, Texas does still have a waiver for the exam, but to even get considered for that, you've got to have a qualifying degree and twelve years of experience, along with nine letters of recommendation instead of the usual five. And, even at that, you wouldn't be able to get a PE in another state by reciprocity/comity if you didn't have the exam.

Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

"All the world is a Spring"

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

 

[JAE]

I was originally licensed in Texas in 1985 - not with an exam, but with an accredited degree (I actually had an M.S. in structural) and a minimum of 4 years of experience which had to be documented well beyond what other states require.

In fact, I couldn't even take the PE exam UNTIL I got licensed there.

After getting the PE, I then took the PE test, passed it, and then eventually moved to another state. I have had no problem whatsoever getting comity in the 20 other states in which I'm licensed. So as long as you take the test, you can get comity. But if you got your Texas PE and then never took the test, the other states would see that you didn't meet THEIR minimum criteria and deny the license. This sort of thing is true everywhere - that states will not accept comity if your "home" state doesn't have the same requirements as they do.

 

[planedr]

I find the whole process bizarre. In Canada if you graduate from an accredited program you meet the acedemic requirements. If you don't you can challenge the exams (up to 14)as assigned by the Society to prove equivalence provided you graduated from an Engineering discipline.

In my case I took a 3 year Engineering course and got a Diploma. In the US it would be an Associate Degree. I challeneged 12 exams succesfully and have 10 years experience. I expect my PE by spring.

Texas won't recognize my PE even though there is an agreement to recognize PE's from my province because I do not have a Degree. Other states will.

I don't need it for my employment here. So whatever. But it is a messed up system that has transfer agreements that don't mean squat.

I could probably go down the road and by a degree by taking some humanities course or such and that would be okay.

 

[HgTX]

I'm working at getting licensed in New York State. As far as I can tell, the only thing my Texas (exam-based) PE is good for is the exam, nothing more. I still need to have a statement from my accredited BS institution, and I still need to document my experience. It doesn't matter that I already had to do all that to get my Texas PE.

I'm not all that happy about this, and not just because it's a pain in the patootie. To document the experience I have to get my boss and my boss's boss (a.k.a. my ex-boss) to sign a piece of paper that implies rather strongly that I'm looking elsewhere. I tell them all the time that I'm looking elsewhere, but in the back of their minds they still tell themselves I don't really mean it. Taking steps to get licensed elsewhere is a pretty strong statement of lack of commitment to staying here, and might hurt my chances of promotion & raises. Sure, I can say I'm keeping my possibilities open, looking a few years down the road, and it'll be true, but it'll raise some eyebrows.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[TFL]

HGTX,

can you just get an ncees record. that way you can tell your boss you are simply doing it incase you need it. then transfer the experiance record to ny via the records program. it is more expensive but may be politically better

 

[zdas04]

HgTX,
The NCEES route is the one I took when I was trying to decide if I could make it on my own. My management was really supportive of my getting a NCEES record. I don't know that all bosses suffer from the magnitude of tunnel vision that mine did, but I've rarely seen a boss that didn't have a bit of that affliction. The biggest downside to the NCEES record is having to get another PE to write you a reference every year verifying one more year of experience.

It really does make the whole comity thing a lot easier.

David

 

[HgTX]

Thanks! I didn't even know about that. Yeah, it sounds more neutral than a form for a particular state.

I'm still irritated at having to go through it all again...

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[Tomcat699]

Why do we even put up with the various boards requirements for reciprocity? Can anyone tell me of a federal law that allows the states this authority? The U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 1, states: “Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.”.
This explicitly prohibits the states from setting any requirements for reciprocity. Each state may set their own requirements for licensure but MUST accept the license of any other state. Only Congress has this authority and, to my knowledge, has not used it for engineering or other professional licensure. Can anyone show me how this is legal?

 

[metengr]

No, not true. The States establish their own Constitution and regulate what happens in their own Jurisdiction(s). This is no different than States establishing requirements for local taxation and home rule laws.

 

[jsummerfield]

The Texas rules changed in 1992. I think that someone in Texas with an engineering degree from an accredite Texas university could become registered without an exam. The waiver mentioned for those with experience appropriate to the board applies to the Fundamentals of Engineering exam. There may be some deal for university professors. I will check the new rule changes as it is renewal time.

John

 

[Ashereng]

In Alberta, Canada, "The Engineering, Geological and Geophysical Professions Act" is a piece of Provincial legislation. The other provinces have their own act. I do not know how it works in the territories.

Hence, PE fall under Provincial jurisdiction, and you need to be accredited in each province that you work in.

 

[rholder98]

As of January 1, 2006, Texas will only grant PE exam waivers to people who hold PhDs and have 4-6 years of creditable experience, and to people who are licensed in other jurisdictions who have 12 years of creditable experience. In addition, they have to have their application in by the end of this year. Everyone else (and everyone who applies starting in Jan.) MUST take, or have taken, the PE exam. I'm glad to see we're getting serious.

As for State vs. Federal, the 10th Amendment reads: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." That says that States get to set their own rules. Article IV, as I read it, says that CA, for example, must honor rulings in TX--e.g., CA cannot protect a fugitive found guilty in TX even if the particular crime is not illegal in CA. I'm not a Constitutional scholar, by any stretch, but when you apply Art. IV to licenses, you delve into a whole host of issues, material for a different forum.

On a separate, but related, note: what seal is required for Federal work, like on military installations?

 

[JAE]

On a separate, but related, note: what seal is required for Federal work, like on military installations?

On federal work - no seal is usually required unless the department requires one. I've designed Corps of Engineer plans without any seal (like for Dept. of Defense work) and on others I've simply placed my home state seal to simply show that I am licensed somewhere...which was the main requirement for the project anyway.

Only in a few cases, when there's time, will I actually get the local state license simply as a matter of form, not for a legal requirement.