PE Reference 3

[controlnovice]

Has anybody had to give someone a poor rating when filling out the PE reference form for someone trying to get their PE license?

The situation just came across my desk from a previous co-worker. I don't feel comfortable them being able to lead, make sound judgement calls and make safe decisions. (one reason he is a PREVIOUS co-worker - and no, I was not his supervisor)

I already know what I'm going to do. Just wondering if anybody else has done it.



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This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

 

[electricpete]

From a purely personal/selfish standpoint, it would be preferable to decline to give an evaluation and keep quite, rather than to give a bad evaluation or to report the guy to the board even when he didn't ask for an evaluation. At the point when you go on record with your opinion of this guy, you may be called upon to provide backup for your opinion. There is the slender chance that your identity/actions might get back to the applicant. Also, in the event that the guy does make it thru licensure and something goes horribly wrong, they will go back and look at the licensing paperwork. Your objections are there on record. Does that remove you from the spotlight? Not quite... there may be questions of whether you did enough or whether you fully expressed the nature of the incompetence, whether you provided enough supporting information to meet your obligations to help the board make it's decision. Even though you think you are on the right side of the issue, you are still in an uncomfortable spotlight in the center of the issue.

If you keep quiet, the spotlight will not likely shine on you and if it does, you have plenty of plausible deniability (something you gave up the moment you put your concern in writing). Also you don't risk ticking off this guy.... who knows what kind of revenge he might seek.

So...why get yourself involved in someone else's problems if it's not your personal responsibility (in the sense that no-one will ever hold you accountable for keeping quiet)?

A lot of rambling. In summary, I believe that in addition to ethical considerations there are personal/selfish implications to consider as well. imho these personal considerations are the biggest factors for most engineers.

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[HVACctrl]

Good question. Interesting discussion.
I can tell you that, for some of my references, I really don't know what they said. They could have been negative but I'm not sure. One guy, in fact, declined my request and siggested that our boss (I no longer worked with either of them at the time) should do it instead. I BELIEVE he said that his PE license was no longer current, but I'm not sure. In any case, I got the references I needed and I got my license.

Now that I think about it, my application was initially declined. The board mentioned something about my experience not being up to standards. I asked them to review it again, they made a few phone calls to some referfences (so they said) and within a couple of days my application was approved. I am pretty sure that had something to do with the board's interpretation of the extent of true design experience in some of my work.

There are some people who I would probably not want to recommend or for whom I would not want to give a reference. I think that would be a tough position. But then again, I think that the people that I think lowly enough about that I wouldn't want to give reference for them know how I feel about them so they wouldn't ask me anyway.

Good luck.

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com

 

[sundale]

I am getting ready to turn in my application for a Utah SE license. They do not accept an NCEES council record for verification of the applicant's experience, but will take it for transcripts, passing test scores and other states' license verification.

The PE verifying my experience statement must stamp the Utah reference form which states: "I certify that the information contained in document is true, complete, and accurate. I further cerify that I understand that to falsify or withold information may be professional misconduct and would subject my license to disciplinary action."

That is crystaline clear.