PE Structural Depth Exam vs. SE Exam in 2019 2

[destory]

I saw some previous threads about this but nothing in the last few years. Now that both exams have been around for a few years, what is the general opinion on which exam to take? My two options are the PE Civil: Structural Depth or the 2 day SE exam.

I currently live in Texas and I have already asked the Texas Board about their licensing and they said they do not offer a specific SE license but that both tests are viewed as equivalent tests for the purpose of a PE license. However, I do not know how other states are. For the states that offer SE licensure, do they require you take the PE exam first or is the SE exam alone enough to be granted an SE license?

I am also curious if there are preferences one way or the other for companies? If I decide to transition to another company does having the SE exam under your belt make a difference in states that do not recognize the specific SE License?

Thank you in advance!

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

I took the SE exam in lieu of the PE exam because I'm a masochist or something. It was super rewarding personally and professionally and I'm glad I did it. That said, it has definite drawbacks.

First, there are some states that you will need to take the PE exam first or cannot use the SE in lieu of the PE. The closest to me is NJ; they 100% do not recognize the SE exam as being a replacement for the PE exam.

Second, some West coast states where an SE exam is required (CA, etc.) you will need a PE exam + an SE exam.

Lastly, this is a very hard exam; you're definitely going to have an easier time with the PE exam (and cheaper for sure). I still say go for it, but make sure this is indeed what you want to take for exams before you dive into it.

Ian Riley, PE, SE
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, VT, CT, MA, FL) Structural Engineer (IL, HI)

 

[JoelTXCive]

If you like punishment, then take the 2-day SE exam versus the 1-day PE exam. The first time pass rate for the PE exam is ~65% and the first time pass rate for the SE is ~29%.

I would pass the PE exam; get your license (+ pay raise), and then determine if you want to take the SE exam.

The PE covers a significantly larger scope of material, but it doesn't dive deep into any one topic. The SE exam does dive deep; and you have to really demonstrate your knowledge with old school long form hand written responses. (The PE exam is all multiple choice)

I passed the PE; and am currently studying off and on for the SE, but I have not registered for the exam yet.

I graduated from a Texas school, so I did not have much snow loading or seismic knowledge. Both of those items are covered in much greater detail on the SE. It has taken a real effort on my part to learn that stuff, and I'm still not great with it.

That's my 2-cents.........

 

[KootK]

I'd go with the SE exam first and then pick pick PE Civil/Structural as needed. Reasoning:

1) I do think that structural firms will see added value in candidates with the SE exam.

2) The SE exam up a lot of doors in terms of accessible markets and perceived prestige.

3) If structural is your wheelhouse, I doubt that you'll have much trouble squeaking past the SE exams.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

To expand on Joel's "first time pass rate for the SE is ~29%":

Keep in mind this a pass rate per section. Currently the pass rate is around 36% per section. Obviously a good engineer will likely pass both so it's not going to truly work out to 0.36 * 0.36 for the total passing percentage but you're definitely going to get a reduction in the passing rate of the whole exam. Essentially, plan on this being a multi-year thing. If you have kids, important work, or otherwise can't devote 200-300 hours every six month to exam studies then you're going to struggle.

Ian Riley, PE, SE
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, VT, CT, MA, FL) Structural Engineer (IL, HI)

 

[destory]

Thank you all so much for your responses! You have definitely given me a lot to think about.

So far, all of the states that my company has done work in do not require an SE license. In fact my understanding is there are only 4 states currently that require a specific SE license (please correct me if I am wrong here). If I decide to go with the PE exam option is there a large incentive/requirement for me to continue to pursue my SE license if I never work in those 4 states? This is especially since I will have gained several years of experience in structural design with my current company. Or is the SE designation something that is pushed heavily by companies/industry as a whole? I ask because as far as I have been told my current company has no preference in which direction I choose.

I also am currently single and obviously still just starting my career. I think this will be the easiest time in my life to study for the SE exam. So if it is the best option for my career, I would like to go for it now rather than later.

 

[Rabbit12]

40 hours studying for the SE? That's great for you, but I think the average person will need to spend more time preparing for that. Not to mention two day exam and you must pass both to get a license and a high percentage can't do that the first time.

Destroy, I'd highly recommend the PE first just for the simple fact that it's recognized in most states for structural engineering and MUCH easier. Then I'd recommend you get the SE. As mentioned above it makes yourself more marketable and I think over time, you'll see more states require the SE. Alaska just started requiring an SE a couple years ago.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

If you can suffer taking longer than your peers to get your PE license and you personally see value in it, take the SE. I found personally taking the SE exam to be extremely rewarding, even though I work in states where the SE license is barely a title designation. I will tell you that if I were hiring a young structural engineer I'd give extreme preference to someone who had taken and passed the 16-hour SE exam.

Now that we've scared you with our earlier doom and gloom I'll join KootK in saying that, if you're clever, you can pass this exam. I'm not as amazing as KootK and it took me 2 tries per section but I studied only about 100 hours per sections for my attempts and my passing lateral attempt was after doing 3 weeks of 14 hour overnights at a papermill shutdown (like 2 days in between, not ideal).

If I were you I'd take the SE in lieu of the PE. That said, I'm not you, but I have zero regrets about taking the SE in lieu of the PE.

Ian Riley, PE, SE
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, VT, CT, MA, FL) Structural Engineer (IL, HI)

 

[Ron247]

I am not familiar with Texas, but how much of your daily design work is directly related to the SE. My understanding from reading about the SE, is that it focuses on Seismic and Bridges in addition to the routine wind and buildings. If you do very little daily high seismic or bridges, you may want to do PE first to get the boost and pursue SE later.

For me, I would struggle to pass the SE even though I have been doing structural for years. I do not work daily with high seismic, high winds or bridges. I live about 100 miles from one of the areas with the lowest design loads in all categories in the codes. Just something to consider.

We all would benefit from the SE status, including myself but at this stage of my life, it is not worth the effort. For a younger engineer, it is well worth pursuing

 

[destory]

That is a good point to consider as well Ron. I do not have much experience with seismic and I have zero experience with bridges. Most of my work has been commercial building design which has given me opportunity to work with a variety of materials and building codes at least. I am expecting to easily spend 300 hours preparing for the SE, much of which I know will have to be spent on seismic design. Are there many bridge questions on the building test?

Thank you all again for your opinions and considerations. The consensus seems to be that the SE is definitely worth pursuing, either now or shortly after the PE. That is definitely an important consideration.

 

[azcats]

As stated, if you're relatively bright and you did well in school you can pass the SE. It's not an impossible test. Do it while you're young and single. You'll have a lifetime advantage over the guy who didn't.

I took the SE and then went to CA and took the PE to get my Civil there. I'm old enough that it was an extra (third) exam to get the SE in CA. I wish I had done it back then. Now if I ever wanted to get my CA SE I'd need to take the new version. But, that ship has probably sailed. At least until my kids are done being raised.

 

[Ron247]

I took my PE with only having steel design of buildings for my experience. That really made it hard. The Structural Analysis problem and the Steel problem are usually the same problem. After that, the rest of the test was things I had college in, but no real experience in. Had it not been for 2 survey problems (horizontal and vertical curves) I doubt there was enough material I was familiar with to pass.

As far as bridge questions on the test, someone else needs to respond because I have never seen the test. I am sure though that tests will vary. It is not that we cannot figure out a bridge, it is the lack of using whatever code is applicable. Takes longer to find their information if you are not familiar with the code.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Destory: One of the biggest benefits to me taking the SE exam was being exposed to areas I didn't normally work with. Prior to the SE exam I had done little seismic work. After the SE I had learned enough that I felt much more confident in my understanding of seismic design. I thankfully do both bridges and building design so I didn't struggle as much with that, but even in areas I had experience in the SE exam studies taught me a lot.

Yes, bridge design is on the building morning sections (multiple choice). You will definitely struggle here but it's not bad enough that you can't struggle through.

Ian Riley, PE, SE
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, VT, CT, MA, FL) Structural Engineer (IL, HI)

 

[Rabbit12]

detory, 20% of the morning section will be bridge questions so roughly 8 questions.

The afternoon is either bridge specific or building specific.

Ron247 sounds like you should go into engineering management Edit: I see KootK deleted his post referencing that.

 

[Celt83]

To echo some others here I'd recommend the SE for the study experience alone you get to dive deep into some topics you may only brush on during your typical day to day tasks, or get yourself out of some bad habits you may have fallen into for your future tasks.

If you go the SE route I will add that time management on the exam was pretty critical and in the afternoon write down your assumptions, code references, and if you find a math error late in your calc or your result doesn't feel right and find yourself running out of time point it out. My understanding is the scorers take things like that into consideration.

Open Source Structural Applications:

https://github.com/buddyd16/Structural-Engineering

 

[JoelTXCive]

I have no doubt you (and me) can pass the SE exam if we allocate enough study hours......but I think the financially safer move is to pass the PE first.

Let's assume you get a $5k salary increase for getting your PE license. If you skip the PE, and it takes you 2 years additional time to get your SE license, then you have missed out on $10k of compensation. If it takes you longer than 2 years, then the opportunity cost gets higher and higher.

Also, what if you want to job hop in the next ~3 years? You are more marketable with an actual license versus saying "I'm working on the SE" to future employers. (I totally agree with Koot & TheMighty in that you will be MORE marketable after passing the SE, but until that happens; you have zero licenses.)

In baseball terms, I think the PE exam is an easy single base hit, where the SE exam is a grandslam versus an experienced pitcher.

 

[Ron247]

I am in Engineering Management, I manage a one man firm and my only employee is hard to work with and has limited abilities.

 

[EDub24]

I’m in CA so I had to pass the PE first before I could take the SE. While I agree studying for the SE will easily help you both with your career and overall knowledge/confidence and should be your ultimate goal my vote is to take the PE first. Assuming you have good study habits you can pass it on the first go-around and get your bonus/raise right away and become more marketable. Then you can focus on the SE. That only puts you back 6 months. Assuming you pass the PE in October you can immediately start working toward the April SE exam.

 

[KootK]

Edit: I see KootK deleted his post referencing that.

Yes, I was trying head off the potential for anyone to feel slighted. I feared that someone would take my general comments and make them personal.

Ron247 sounds like you should go into engineering management

Only if Ron studied 499 HRS for the SE and failed. Otherwise, he's untested...literally.

There are any number of fine reasons to fail the SE exams. I merely submit that studying hundreds of hours and having that be insufficient isn't one of them. The abysmal pass rates for repeat testers is the statistical manifestation of that. Yeah, there will be outliers with great stories to tell. But a trend is still a trend. White men can't jump, most women will take mat leave, and not everyone is destined to be a structural engineer. And that's okay. Somebody needs to steer the ship and make some real money anyhow.

 

[TheDW]

In regards to the pass rate...it’s also worth considering that most (not all, obviously, as shown in this thread) of the people taking the SE are going to already be licensed PEs who have passed the structural PE. So the pass rates aren’t from the same pool of people... (at least, that’s what I told myself to ease the sting of failing the SE)

The PE was a breeze for me, but the SE kicked my butt. I’ll be studying for my 2nd try soon.