PE: Structural I or Civil?

[cedent]

I took the structural I PE exam in October and did not pass. Although I feel like I was fairly prepared I was overwhelmed with the time factor. I felt as if I needed a different code book or text book for each problem. Texts where flying everywhere! I also felt like the exam writers seemed to focus on some odd (out of the mainstream) topics. I did not feel confident when I left, but I don't know who would after that eight hour exam.

My boss suggested that I take the civil test with the structural afternoon session. We had heard that the abbreviated section was more focused on basics and less focused on some of the obscure topics. I know these topics are not obscure to everyone, but at our firm we do not practice bridge design or pre-cast design (for example).

My undergraduate degree is mechanical... and I have been working for this structural firm since I was a sophmore in college.

My advisor seems to think I can 'pick up' the hydrology, traffic, and environmental portions of the morning civil exam.

Has anyone taken this civil exam that might have some thoughts?

Thank you in advance for your time and help.

 

[swivel63]

now that goes back to another question.....i haven't seen the S2 exam listed as the SE. what are the requirements one should have to be an SE? just take the S2 exam? or are there other requirements?

keep in mind, i'm not in cali or illinois.

 

[cedent]

swivel63, What one SHOULD have is a totally different story.

I saw a website today that said only ten states license SE's seperately (west coast and Illinois). They all require multiple tests. Some require any 8 hour NCEES exam plus S1 and S2... and some require a civil 8 hour NCEES exam plus S1 and S2. Looks like CA has a whole different set of tests (NCEES civil plus 21 hours of other tests). I can't find the link now that I am trying.

 

[lkjh345]

Swivel63:

FWIW: In Nebraska, the structural engineers (through our Structural Enginners of Nebraska organization) and our Board of Architects and Engineers are currently having a long and vigorous debate on the subject of who may call themselves a 'Structural Engineer' and use 'SE' behind their name. Its been an ongoing 'discussion' for about 2 years.

The current drift seems to be that for new engineers, you will need to pass both SE I and SE II in order to be a 'Structural Engineer' and to use 'SE' behind your name. Those that 'only' pass SE I will be classified as a Civil Engineer and will put 'PE' behind their name.

There is an ongoing discussion of how to grandfather in older folks who have passed some test (Struct I or Civil) and have a liscense and some minimum additional time practicing structural engineering. The current proposal is that you will need at least a 'PE' registration and 10 years of qualifing expereince to be grandfathered in.

Currently, we do not have a Practice Act regulating who can stamp 'structural' drawings. So the deliniation is not important at the moment, but the clear hint is that eventually there may be a Practice Act limiting the stamping of 'structural' drawings to Structural Enginners.

 

[swivel63]

ok, cool....well that's the goal right now. i just don't want to take the S2, pass it, and then still not be able to have the extra letters.

 

[jrfroe]

I just took the SE1 in April and passed on the 1st try. My thinking was that since I live in southeast wisconsin, illinois is right out my back door and I'll probably want an SE license in Illinois. But I think I'd do the same if I was anywhere else just because I'd be eliminating options by taking the civil exam. All I have to do to see that I'd be eliminating options is look at some of the senior engineers I know and see that they all have a drawer full of PE/SE stamps from 20-30 states.

One thing I thought was extremely helpful in addition to all the study guides and practice questions that no one has mentioned yet... I downloaded a pdf by ncees that covers in detail what can be covered on the exam. You can find this at:

http://www.ncees.org/exams/professional/pe_structural_1_exam_specs.pdf

I printed off this sheet and basically did a detailed assessment of all of my strong and weak points, so I knew what topics I needed to study, and which ones I didn't. And as I studied and gained more understanding of my weaker topics, I was able to check them off the list as strong topics.

Hope this helps,
Jason

 

[ahunt]

I’m registered in NY, MI, FL, and Ohio as a PE (I took the Civil PE), that is what’s required to stamp drawings structural in nature in those states. I view the Civil PE as a must for the present time. I also see legislation changing all the time, therefore I see the SE I and SE II as the future. Not many people here in Ohio are registered as SE I or SE II. Procrastinators I guess, but if I have it already, it looks marketable. Our George PE has not taken the SE’s, and I don’t see that as a violation of any law. He took the Civil PE back many decades.

I have been told the SE is worth more than a masters….that’s just the way our big company thinks, right or wrong. If you have time, take all the tests. Ask your employer, maybe the will pay for them.

I too passed the SE I the first time around. My company designs all the materials on the test, plus aluminum and fiberglass structures.

Best wishes…Keep your chin up.

 

[UcfSE]

Taking the SE instead of the PE civil helps with reciprocity in some cases.

It's amazing, sometimes, the comments that come from people who fail a test, about the test.

 

[swivel63]

lol, what kind of comments do people usually make?

 

[USFEngineer]

This is the same issue I am having now. Do I take the SE 1 or take the Civil. In FL as a Civil engineer you can seal structural drawings. All of the other PE's in my office took the test 2, 3 or even 4 times. So I am a little intimidated by the whole SE 1. The reason I am heavily leaning towards taking the SE 1 is that we are a structural enginering firm. So I tend to agree with jimaitken about the whole ethics issue.

I tend to procrastinate with things so I plan on starting studying for the SE now. I can take the exam in October. Hopefully I only have to take it one time!! If not I'll take it again.

 

[JackTrades]

I took the Civil P.E. test four times during the late 80's and early 90's. I finally passed by taking the SE 1. Guess I don't multi-task all that well.

-Jack

 

[whyun]

Structural Engineering really should be separated from the Civil Engineering Departments at the undergraduate level. Sure there should be courses that overlap just like many other majors have overlaps. Structural Engineering has evolved to a point where it is complex enough to deserve recognition as a separate discipline and not just one "branch" of civil.

With the current system, there is a lot more work and exams involved to be called an SE. Looking at the various salary surveys from trade magazines and observation of colleagues and beyond leads me to believe that civil engineers are better off than structural engineers, salary-wise.

 

[lkjh345]

Whyun;

I agree with you. Structural Engineering has evolved to where is should be a seperate acedemic major. Maybe someday we will get some 'love'.

That is interesting regarding salaries. I would say in my part of the country (Nebraska) the Structurals are definately better off salary wise. 10% to 20% better off. Around here Civils are not that hard to come by, but Structurals, especially those with more than a few years of expereince, are very hard to find.

 

[structuralaggie]

I took and passed the str1, but I am not sure if taking the civil wouldn't have been better. CA let me take the special seismic and surveying test with out having to take the national civil, but I am not sure if all states are that forgiving. I think most states allow civils to design buildings. Some states require SEs to desing special buildings like hospitals, but civils can still desing most of the buildings.

I don't know how it is going to turn out, but I am really going to be ticked off if I have to go back and take the civil exam some day if I want to get registered as a civil in some state. So to answer your question, I don't know which one is better. Good luck!

 

[whyun]

I'm not sure if California is the state with the most number of structural engineers in the United States. SE number is around 5000 currently, leaving out the first 1000 for deceased/retired SE's, that leaves about 4000 practicing SE's (high estimate).

Unless you are an owner/principal or as a minimum a senior level engineer, worker bees get a small portion of around 1% of the construction cost. Civil engineers dealing with building site grading usually make even less but ones in public works or transportation (private consultants on government projects) usually are better off. Both the bosses and the worker bees.

 

[structuralaggie]

Rather ironic that California is the state where being an SE means the most, but at the same time does not require you to take the structural I exam. You have to become a civil engineer first (national civil, thier seismic and surveying), then take both the national structural II and thier Western seismic exam (its called something like that).

 

[Whodapookie]

cedent,
Did you say you live in Georgia? I moved to Georgia having my PE from another state by taking the civil exam with the structural afternoon. When I applied for reciprocity for my GA license, it was denied since my experience was in structural and my test was in civil. The real kicker is you have to drive to Macon to take this lovely test. The 1st time, I got to experience a funeral in the room next door. No, not my funeral on the exam, but an actual funeral with a choir and organs and a firey preacher for 3 hours! This broke my concentration and I got the pleasure of trying again, and passing the next time easily.

My point is: if you are in Georgia and have experience in Structural only, they may not allow you to take the civil exam. You may want to call the state board and verify if you can take the civil before trying it.

 

[swivel63]

what other state was it?

<== thinking about moving from FLA to GA this year.

 

[structuralaggie]

Whodapookie - did you have to take both the civil and structural I exams?

 

[jimaitken]

Whodapookie
You bring up a good point. When I applied for the exam in Massachussetts the board assigned me to the STR I exam based on my experience. When I recieved my MA PE it had a structural designation on it. When I applied to Georgia for a license by comity I was granted it without having to travel to Macon for an exam, even though Georgia only issues a civil PE. But if Cedent is already in GA I do not think she would have this problem. The issue may come into play when she applies to another state for her license by comity.

 

[cedent]

For those who have asked... I am in GA. I really felt for those out-of-towners in October when we were all standing in line at 7 a.m.... in a leaky lobby... with standing water on the floor.