PE Training: Eng-Tips Forum 7

[racookpe1978]

Would it be considered moral, ethical, and non-fattening to include portions of the

http://www.eng-tips.com

forum responding time and reading as professional development for continuing ed credits?

 

[IRstuff]

There have been others that reported claiming the same

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[zdas04]

I do. I count it as a "Journal".

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[JedClampett]

Most pdh reporting is on the honor system. As I'm sure you know, most states don't even want anything except a you to sign an affidavit that you completed the requirement. Florida is one exception that I know about.
So until you're audited, it's not a worry. Keep records and be sure to have an explanation ready. When I renew, I fill out a matrix with dates and titles that I keep on our server. By the time you get audited, it's hard to remember the details. I've been audited twice (Nevada and Texas), and even though it was a pain to figure out how to respond, I just regurgitated my information, give them the records that I did have (Certificates, sign in sheets, etc.) and wrapped it up in a signed letter.
Take it easy, don't only depend on Eng-Tips and you'll be fine.

 

[kylesito]

Actually, I'd disagree that it should count as continuing ed. Does sitting around the lunch table discussing something related to engineering count as continuing ed? I would equate the learning experience to be the same. If so, then practically every discussion you have could be considered continuing ed. Pretty sure this isn't the intent.

I don't mean to negate the quality of the eng-tips website but I just don't think it qualifies as continuing ed.

From the perspective of formality, I would also be cautious. If I remember correctly some states require a "list of attendees" to be kept by the host of the continuing ed session so that records can be verified. At least, when we were hosting professional development seminars, this was the instruction we were given.

Yes, it's on the honor system. But I think time spent surfing a bulletin board could be a gray area at best, deceptive at worst.

PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[zdas04]

In my state (New Mexico) they have guidelines for categories of continuing education. They allow 1 PDH for each journal you subscribe to and read. I call eng-tips.com a "journal" and claim 1 PDH without any feeling of wrongdoing. I spend several hundred hours a year learning and teaching (and bickering, but that isn't the primary activity).

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[JedClampett]

If the purpose of the pdh system is to keep up to date on your field, I would say that answering and browsing Eng-Tips is a legitimate activity.
As I said, you shouldn't claim all 16 credits a year based on the website, but a 1 pdh or 2 is OK.

 

[racookpe1978]

To continue the discussion then: In my case, I did complete a 30 hour on-line OSHA course in January, so clearly that course completion certificate and the hours chargeable to the company documents (more than double) the pro development hours needed for the certification year.

Casual, unlisted or unlogged reading on a generic internet energy web sites would be more than debatable; logged hours researching on specified engineering, scientific or technical web sites (for machining details, or metal specifications or heat transfer theory, radiation and thermal equations) could be more easily supported to the PE agency. Specific documentation (for example) more of a large number (100 or 200) of explicitly technical replies and critical discussions on eng-tips would also be valid, but the registrant would be more credible if those hours were only for a portion of the total pro-dev. hours for a different year.

 

[77JQX]

Oregon explicitely allows both "self study" and "mentoring nonregistered individuals" as qualifying activities for continued professional development hour credits.

 

[msquared48]

Personally, if you are keeping up or learning new concepts in this forum, it is education to me, and continuing education at that. Your posts are conveniently saved by the site, so you can verify your participation to the state board if requested.

If you are honestly in here to learn and contribute to the betterment of other engineers, including yourself, how is that different than attending a seminar? That is only once a month or so. This site is every day.

I had the same question here five years ago regarding continuing education and this site...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[IRstuff]

more like 6:
thread507-195147

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[msquared48]

@ IR:

Damn but you're good!

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[zelgar]

I would call using forums like eng-tips a journal very questionable. I think that you can easily find websites that offer low cost or free contiunal education credits a better choice. One site that offers free CE is

http://www.cenews.com/webcasts

. You can watch the live webcast for free CE credit; and for recorded ones, free CE credit after taking a quiz.

 

[zdas04]

You may find it questionable, but when I took a class on PE responsibilities from my board I asked the question and they unequivocally supported it because it is verifiable--if they audited they could look at my usage of this site in just a few seconds. They can't really audit whether I read the journals I subscribe to or not.

They also said that participation in this particular forum (Professional Ethics) could (under certain guidelines) satisfy part of the ethics PDH requirements. That requires a bit more explanation if audited, but the certainly felt that participation here was in line with the intent of that portion of the law.

This has been an anecdote about a particular conversation that I had with a member of the New Mexico Board. A different member or a different board may have completely different opinions. Have your own conversation.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[racookpe1978]

But would not the explicit (demonstrable) contributions you are making by reading, editing, writing, and contributing to a "organized professional engineering ethics forum" in public (because few people write on-line compared to the numbers reading on-line now and in the future!), not be "professional development" in engineering ethics?

Now, it would be a stretch to say - "Well, I used about 30 hours reading about engineering problems and ethics on-line" to claim 30 hours on-line training; but that is not the case here. Here, editing and writing on-line contributions towards the 1 or 2 hours needed for continuing registration in ethics.

 

[zdas04]

That is basically it, but the exception was that eng-tips.com Professional Ethics forum could not be the ONLY ethics PDH claimed. I had to find another hour somewhere.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[Forensic74]

Use eng-tips as a tech guide if you must, but I dont think it should count as PDH's. I'm not saying that the information on this site is necessarily wrong; however, there's nothing that formally regulates the quality of information. You're getting information from anonymous people with unknown qualifications and backgrounds...and in most cases its responses from the same "core" of people who live on this site and quite possibly may have internet addiction problems.

 

[IRstuff]

I can stop at any time!

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[zdas04]

Yeah, me too.

Many of us here teach classes that satisfy PDH requirements. The single biggest difference is that if I say something really wrong (even dangerous) in a classroom, then the students will most likely write it down as gospel. If I say the same thing here, at least a dozen of my peers will take me to task immediately. I don't know what planet you are coming from, but in my world peer-reviewed trumps pontification every time. I am cheered by the fact that my board agrees with me, not you MainMan10.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[Forensic74]

I'm coming from a planet where I know the background of my reviewers. On your planet, you may spend enough time on this site to make a good guess at everyone's capabilities, however, i assure you that you're in the minority.