PE vs SE The New Exam Structure

[umrce]

While I know many a thread has been posted on this topic I thought it light of the new format of the PE and SE exam I would bring this discussion back to the message boards.

For those unaware that would like to partake, the PE and SE are now completely separate exams. (Someone feel free to correct if I butcher this.) The old style PE will still be given as a morning Civil Breadth session with a Structural Depth Section. However, they have done away with the Str I exam that was structural morning and afternoon. The SE is now two 8 hr exams given on a Friday and Saturday all SE topics broken up into load groups (vertical and lateral). You have to pass both days to get your SE license. If you fail the first day and pass the second I believe you have to take both again but that is a moot point for this thread.

What I would like to know is does anyone have any recommendations on which I should take; PE, SE, or both? Are there any disadvantages to having an SE in the certain states that do not acknowledge the SE license? (i.e. can I register for a PE in those states having an SE) I'm not the kind of person that needs both titles behind my name so if I can pass my SE I'd like to do that and be finished however, if due to the state-to-state structure of licensure it is more beneficial to take the PE and then the SE at a later time I'm willing.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

An SE is required in Illinois for ANY structural work. ONLY state that has this!!! Why - I don't know. I live in St. Louis County 20 miles from IL and cannot even design a 2x4 wall!!

CA has a rule that you must have an SE to design certain structures like hospitals and other essential buildings or building 4 or 5 stories tall or greater - I think. To get a PE you must pass a seismic and surveying test in CA. Yes, you have to go to CA to take the tests!! They say the surveying is the hardest part. Again, why does a PE need to know much about surveying??

Some other states have some minor rules - I think WA, HI and OR come to mind. For Alaska - you must take a one week 8 hours per day on permafrost and pass that. Only given in AK and WA.

You can go to NCEES.org and check out what state require what.

BUT most states allow for a PE by reason of "training or experience" to do any design work.

As PE for 30 years - would I design a 100 story skyscraper - no freaking way!!! A 100 x100 warehouse - piece of cake.

Other than that, my PE has served me well and I am registered in like 42 states!!

 

[ToadJones]

For me, a lack of practical experience in seismic and AASHTO deterred me from taking SEI for a PE. But at the time passing the 8 hr SEI was good enough for a PE. So, I would have to assumed that if you pass SE I & II and get your SE, you could rightfully call yourself a PE.

With my work experience at the time, the Civil morning and Structural depth was pretty straight forward/ not hard.
Relearning hydraulics and some transportation stuff for the morning was not enjoyable.

 

[epitome1170]

I think it really depends on what you want to do in life as well.

For me (30 years old), I took the SE1 and 2 (and am taking the 3 in October in Washington) because I want to be as prepared as possible for any potential regulation changes that states present. That and I do not want to have any limitations if I am seeking employment elsewhere.

However, not all people have the need to be a SE (see MiketheEngineer) and so at that point getting your P.E. is more than enough. By the way, I am not trying to degrade the P.E. at all just simply saying currently there is not a huge drive for S.E.s in most states.

 

[umrce]

Thanks all. The water cooler here in Oklahoma pretty much agrees that the PE would suffice. I guess I can't help wonder that is coming down the road and even if it is 10 years from now I'd like to prep now and be ready.

On another note, MiketheEngineer, B.S. & M.S. from UMR and interned in St. Louis, Go Cards!

 

[woodman88]

MiketheEngineer:
In CA a CE can design a 100 or 200+ story building and it could be built if they can find someone to put up the money.
Per the State Board, Building Design Authority "CIVIL ENGINEERS may design any building of any type EXCEPT public schools and hospitals."

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

 

[epitome1170]

SEIOKC -

I also got a B.S. M.S. from UMR (before they changed it to the dreaded UMST). And although a KC native now, always a Cards fan.

 

[ToadJones]

UMR?

Go Pirates

 

[MiketheEngineer]

UMR = University of Missouri at Rolla, MO. Used to be called the Rolla School of Mines. They originally taught anything you ever wanted to know about mining.

My parents wanted me to go there - but NO women, So I went to UMC - University of Missouri at Columbia, MO. LOTS of great looking gals there!!

Go Cards - get rid of the heat!!

It's 102 out and about 95% humidity.....

Not licensed in CA so I was pulling that info out my a$$ knowing it was fairly close. Always check with the State Board!!

 

[JAE]

I thought California had a 160 ft. limit on PE's as well.

Utah has just created a partial practice act like California - Nebraska is also looking at it. So are others. It is in the wind. It may be that many more states in the future will head toward a separate SE license.

For me - If I was a young structural EI (or EIT) and had to choose - I wouldn't think twice - I'd do the 16 hour. It just wouldn't be that difficult (if you study and get good experience) and you wouldn't be limited in the future.

Remember, the longer you wait to take any of these exams, the harder they are.

I can't think of any good reason for taking a Civil PE exam other than it is a bit cheaper and a degree easier. But the long term implications and ramifications to my career would point me to the 16 hour.

 

[sandman21]

LA and several other cities amended the building code requiring a SE on structures over 160+.

Per state law a PE may design any structure except hospital and DSA work (school, college, etc.)

The state specific surveying test is the worst when taking the PE, no good studying guides to follow, like the state seismic. A PE needs to take surveying because certain work can be perform by a PE in lieu of a PLS.

 

[JoeBaseplate]

Does anyone know if with the new SE 16 hr exam, the West coast states will do away with SE 3?

 

[henri2]

sandman21, I think woodman88 is correct. I believe the 160 ft height limit was deleted from those codes in the 80s because of a successful legal challenge.

 

[delagina]

ok there's

PE-Civil Structural Depth,
PE-SE1
PE-SE2
PE-SE 16hour exam
SE for California, etc..

yeah that makes sense

 

[woodman88]

The attached is from the City of Los Angeles website. Is shows no height limits for Civil Engineer's.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

 

[river55]

Yes, this October is the last time that the SE III exam will be given in Washington. The whole country will move to the NCEES 16 hour exam after that. The only reason to take the SE III exam would be if you have already passed the SE1 and SE2 exams and needed the SEIII to get your SE liscense, but if you don't pass it this october, you will have to take the full 16 hour exam.

I am taking the 16 hour SE this October myself. Here in Oregon, any building over three stories, in addition to Hospitals and Schools, has to be designed by an SE.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

As an EIT who is taking his test next year and has practiced 75% structural during my EIT career I'm definitely headed for the 16 hour structural for my PE and SE. I'm currently working in Maine but have about a 50% chance of staying here and figure the SE will be:

1) Harder and longer but probably similar study amounts as I haven't done transpo. or hydraulics since college.
2) Get it out of the way if more states go SE in the future.
3) Give me a feather in my cap. (Lets see if I can get more letters in the acronyms following my name than actually in my name!)
4) Give me more options for employment in other states.
5) Finally, why the heck not? I didn't choose to be an engineer because it was going to be easy. Bring it on NCEES! (Though, honestly, that 25% passing grade for the first round of testing kinda scares me...)

I would love to hear some thoughts from people who actually took the 16 hour...

EIT with BS in Civil/Structural engineering.