ph.d and employment in engineering 5

[TurbulentFluid]

While trying to figure out which direction I should take in my future career, a ph.d study has come up as an interesting alternative. I already have an equivalent of European MS degree (dipl.ing. in my country) and have a good opportunity for a ph.d. study in a field I'm interested in, plus work at the institute (at least for now). However I am not interested in an academic career on long-term basis. Is a ph.d. study a smart move? Could a ph.d. degree represent a kind of an obstacle when I apply for a "real" engineering job after a few years of studying + work at a college institute (I do industry-related projects at the institute, not teaching.

 

[IRstuff]

Regardless of whether the respondents were executives or not, either way it's a cultural issue. Their attitudes permeate throughout their organizations and their companies' cultures.

The notion that people who do not have a PhD think it's not worthwhile is exactly opposite of the culture of non-Americans. My father completed only a BA, but felt very strongly that a PhD was a mark of success. In fact, many immigrant families that come to America and send their children onward toward PhD's barely have high school educations. I would argue that these people, who don't even have college educations value PhD's more than the supposed engineering norm.

We have PhD's working on design solutions for current and future products. It's purely a matter of training and direction. A fresh BSEng is equally unable to contribute to a design right out of school.

TTFN

 

[Maui]

Greg, I also work in an industry that sells products worldwide. In order to produce those products on time and at cost, design and development work needs to be done. So does prototype testing. Based on your responses to prior threads, I suspect that you spend a good deal of your time in design and analysis. Once the prototypes are built, someone has to test them and interpret the results. I will assume that the report you referred to was completed by a Ph.D., although this was not explicitly stated in your post. Testing and analysis is a rather common role for industrial PhDs to fulfill. Apparently, the report that was issued did not satisfy your expectations. I have read many reports prepared by other engineers that did not satisfy mine. It is not clear to me what the point is that you're trying to make.

If you are implying that such an individual is attempting to justify the work they wanted to complete by ignoring obvious clear-cut data, then that is your call to make. If you are implying that all Ph.D.s are guilty of the same offense, then you're off the mark. In my current position, I am called upon by process engineers on a weekly (and often on a daily) basis to help them resolve production issues. One of the issues that was brought to my attention recently involved repeated die failures. The engineers were unable to come up with a viable solution. Through an examination of the failed production dies, discussions with the engineers and shop personnel, and metallurgical analysis of the dies and the product that they are used to process, I was able to provide the engineers with the documented solution that they needed in less than two weeks. I was also able to tell them where they could run into trouble in implementing the solution, and who specifically to contact so that they could avoid these pitfalls. By the way, they later told me that this problem had plauged them on and off for almost three years.

Yes, competence is a rare and wonderful thing, and there are some Phds out there who are incompetent. There are many other professionals in different disciplines who also suffer from this same affliction, and I would argue that it has little or nothing to do with the level of education that is attained. It has much more to do with the individual's innate intelligence.

Irstuff, I would agree that the attitude toward educational level does differ greatly among different cultures. In Germany and Austria, a Ph.D. in engineering is held in high respect by engineers. I believe that many immigrants seek a better life for themselves and their children by coming here to the United States. And many of them do view a good education for their children as a necessary step in order to achieve that goal.

Maui

 

[GregLocock]

No, it wasn't by a PhD (so far as I know). I described a beautiful experiment that ignored the important facts in favour of experimental completeness. One test, in one week, would have confirmed that the new design was sufficiently good. But that would have been a one page report and had no academic rigour. This is similar to the attitude I quoted from your post. There is a time for academic experimentation, and there is a time for just accepting that some things in life can't be explained today, and menanwhile I need that prototype for important work, not career-boosting experiments.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[Maui]

This is similar to the attitude I quoted from your post. There is a time for academic experimentation, and there is a time for just accepting that some things in life can't be explained today, and menanwhile I need that prototype for important work, not career-boosting experiments.

Had you properly communicated that same "attitude" to the engineer who performed the work for you, you may have obtained what you originally wanted.

Maui

 

[GregLocock]

Unfortunately Maui I have zero actual authority when it comes to what other departments get up to. The best I can do after the event is to comment when asked, and when not-asked!

So many idiots, so few bullets...

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.