Picking up where they left off

[NewEnglandStruct]

I have a client who wants to hire me to review a near completed rooftop deck installation. He is unable to reach to original engineer, the contractor made field changes under the direction of a second engineer, and then died. No one knows who this second engineer is. The original engineer is MIA.

It appears to be a relatively simple project, however, I am wondering how to approach this. It is unclear if I can simply review the project as a Construction Administration task for the Owner (acting as the Owner's Representative), or if this becomes an inappropriate use of someone else's plans. I do not want to "re-design" a 95% completed project. I also don't want to take on someone else's work, and then have extreme confusion over who is responsible (there may be a final affidavit).

Am I overthinking this? Should I run away screaming?

Thanks!

 

[rb1957]

my take is you'd be responsible for the job. Whilst you don't need to redesign the structure, I'd suggest re-doing the analysis.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[LittleInch]

I agree. Do the design and analysis work from scratch using data agreed with the client or available from drawings etc (after making note of the "field changes") and then check the drawings and construction details to make sure they comply without having to re-do the entire thing.

At least then you can claim to "own" the design, but the client might not like the size of the fee...

Otherwise limit the review to a high level check and refuse to sign anything that looks like taking any actual responsibility for the design. And keep copies.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[MotorCity]

Most of the time, if you touch it you own it. The contractor should have the second engineer's changes in writing, and if so, the engineer's name would ideally be on the sketches/drawings. Otherwise, it sounds fishy that the contractor made undocumented changes and the engineer conveniently died. If you do accept the work, I would only accept it as a Peer Review (no EOR duties). You may not be aware of the history, issues, etc. that may have occurred throughout the job. Since the client is asking for your review, he probably already has concerns that he may or may not make you aware of.

 

[NewEnglandStruct]

I am planning to tell the client that I would need to essentially redesign the deck, which would hopefully be in line with the way it was constructed. It may be sticker shock, but I will sleep better at night if I know I'm not glossing over someone else's messes. I considered the Peer Review, but there's very little to review, and some evidence that the original design was iffy. I'm a little new to the commercial world (I was an Owners Rep for a large facility for many years) - this is all very helpful.

 

[SteelPE]

It’s not too uncommon for another engineer to perform the CA portion of a project. I have performed the site visit portion of the CA before for another engineer who lived far away from the project. In this instance I reviewed their drawings and did my normal visits as if I was an EOR and prepared reports that were sent to the original EOR. I made it clear that I was only performing those tasks and was not going to be responsible to sign any affidavits.

Your instance is a little different though as the contractor has made modifications to the original design. Very tricky because you don’t know what to review, or even if the work performed was correct. In this instance, doing some design work may be necessary.

Good Luck

 

[msquared48]

Do you have the original and changed drawings and calculations to review?

If you do, a letter of agreement can be submitted to the local jurisdiction and you become the EOR.

If not, then, yes, a full analysis (not design - analysis - since it is 95% complete) of the project, based on what you know to exist, is in order here.

You could also take the stance too that what you cannot see, you cannot approve or be responsible for, but the local jurisdiction will not like that, obviously.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[epoxybot]

State law may dictate that once you take on the role of engineer on an unfinished project, you become responsible for the whole project, including prior work by the original EOR. Who paid the second engineer, the owner or the contractor? Surely a roof deck has a building permit, which means an engineers stamp and a name.

 

[NewEnglandStruct]

There is zero information of any kind about what modifications the contractor made, and under what professional guidance (if any), and since the contractor passed away, we will never know. The owner and architect have indicated that the original engineer (who is associated with the building phase and deck phase permits) is unresponsive. I have been provided the original drawings and plans, but no calculations. Additionally, the first engineer, did not appear to consider snow drift loads when sizing the framing below the deck. The fence is 7' high and 10' below an adjacent roof. I am in MA, and can't find anything in the code that clearly describes how much responsibility I would take on by touching this, so I'm just assuming all of it. That may include a review of the original framing under the drift loads, unfortunately. I'm trying not to make a mountain out of a mole hill for the client on a simple roof deck, but there are just so many question marks. If he doesn't seek my services it will remain the original engineer's responsibility, which make be hit on his timeline, but should also save him the expense of using me.

 

[dreber]

What exactly are they asking you to do? Are you being asked to approve the 2nd engineer's work? Are you being asked to perform structural observations?

 

[NewEnglandStruct]

I'm being asked to review, document, and approve the changes made in the field.

 

[dreber]

It sounds to me like there are two scenarios I would consider pursuing:

If they can be specific about the questions you are being asked, such as "Is this joist strong enough" or "Is this connection adequate", you might be able to just answer those very narrow questions without assuming liability for the entire structure.

However, if the most specific question they can ask you is "Is this deck adequate", the only thing to do is to check every member and connection.

My two cents.

 

[MotorCity]

This could be a no win situation for you.

Scenario 1: You look it over, things look ok, you sign off on it. Something is overlooked (perhaps because you were not involved from the beginning of the project) and everyone is pointing the finger at you.

Scenario 2: You observe something significant that must be corrected. With the job 95% complete, the owner and contractor are probably not going to be very receptive to your recommendations.

I suspect they are looking for a "plan stamper".

 

[dhengr]

NewEnglandStruct:
It all sounds pretty shady to me. They are looking for an insurer of last resort (you) for a job which was generally poorly designed and managed. You should be talking to your professional insurance carrier about their take on this whole thing, and maybe even some help in how you should respond and word any contract. I would also like to hear the EOR’s side of the story, call him. Why won’t he continue work on his own project, why won’t he work with the owner, arch. & builder any longer? If he got stiffed for his fee and they (owner, arch. & builder) basically wouldn’t follow his plans, specs. and details, they will likely do the same to you. Whatever the owner and Arch. say now, and they may actually need some engineering help to complete this project, you can bet you will be left holding the bag for anything/everything which doesn’t turn out right, even if you couldn’t see it. It sounds like everyone on the job tried to save some money, by doing it their way, once the plans were done and the permit issued. What is the AHJ’s position in this whole thing? None of us like to turn down good work, but some projects are better just to walk away from.