PIPE NOMENCLATURE 7

[Ciaci]

Hi all,
I have just started to work in firefighting company.
In my MTOs, I have submitted simplified definition of the material. Unfortunately someone else blamed my for the lack of precision in this definition. Can someone help to understand in what I am wrong?
These are some example in what I would like to be helped:
1) 3'' Flange WN, A 105, 150# RF, SCH 40
First of all my bosses convinced me that in flanges has to be indicated the schedule too. Is that right? ( I accepted this, but with some reservation)
What else should I add too in order to make a complete description?
2)3'' Gasket 150# RF, 32 c 28
What else should I add too in order to make a complete description?
3) 3 X 1/2 Thredolet, A 105
First of all is it needed to specify "3x"
Should I add the class (e.g #3000)
4) 2 1/2''x 1 1/2 conc. SWG. A 234 WPB
Someone commented to this that all swages should be A106. Is that right? Someone can explain me why?
5) 1''x 1 1/2'' welded reducing tee with threaded oulted.
My bosses told me that this material does not exist. How can I know if this material exist or not?
6)2 1/2'' flange threade (male) 150# RF
My bosses told me that this material does not exist. How can I know if this material exist or not? Can threaded flanges be male? Are there limitation for threaded Flanges?

Thanks a lot guys. It is not a lot of time that I work in this field. Any comment that can help me (poor intern ) will be accepted and I will be gratefull

 

[dicksewerrat]

Since you just started, maybe your boss knows a little more than you. Get out all the catalogs from your suppliers and start reading.

Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.

http://WWW.amlinereast.com

 

[pennpiper]

francescociani88,
First you must consider that some things are just a matter of opinion. Such as your Bosses opinion vs. my opinion.


1) 3'' Flange WN, A 105, 150# RF, SCH 40 I would write this: 3" Class 150 RFWN A106 Sch 40 Flange
First of all my bosses convinced me that in flanges has to be indicated the schedule too. Is that right? ( I accepted this, but with some reservation)Yes this is correct for all flanges except for Slip-On flanges
What else should I add too in order to make a complete description? That may depend on your supplier
-
2)3'' Gasket 150# RF, 32 c 28 I would write this: 3" Class 150 RF Spiral Wound Graphite filled Gasket (I do not know what you mean by 32 c 28)
What else should I add too in order to make a complete description? That may depend on your supplier
-
3) 3 X 1/2 Thredolet, A 105 I would write this: 3" Sch 40 x 1/2" Class 3000 NPT A 105 Threadolet
First of all is it needed to specify "3x" Yes
Should I add the class (e.g #3000) Yes
-
4) 2 1/2''x 1 1/2 conc. SWG. A 234 WPB Assuming your Line Class is Threaded, I would write this: 2-1/2" Sch40 x 1-1/2" Sch 80 Conc. Swg A 106
Someone commented to this that all swages should be A106. Is that right? Someone can explain me why? If the Line Class material is A 106 Carbon Steel then the answer is yes
-
5) 1''x 1 1/2'' welded reducing tee with threaded oulted. You wrote the size description wrong for a reducing TEE. My bosses told me that this material does not exist. How can I know if this material exist or not? The 'Run' of the TEE is always the first size given followed by the branch size. And there is no such thing as a TEE with the larger size branch than the 'run'. So I would write this as: 2-1/2" NPT x 1" NPT Sch ?? A 106 Reducing TEE
-
6)2 1/2'' flange threade (male) 150# RF
My bosses told me that this material does not exist. How can I know if this material exist or not? Can threaded flanges be male? Are there limitation for threaded Flanges?
In this case your Boss is correct. There is no such thing as a Male Thread Flange. The flange has the female thread and the pipe (or Swedge) is the male thread.

Sometimes its possible to do all the right things and still get bad results

 

[Ciaci]

Sorry Richard , but this answer does not help so much! I am not talk about suppliers, but about standard ASTM/ASME. And of course, I will keep on reading and studying.

 

[Ciaci]

tHANKs a lot pennpiper. I am very gratefull

 

[Ciaci]

Sorry pennpiper but I have to ask something else. Do you usually use for fitting and flanges the same schedule of the related pipe. In some manual I read that fittings are commercially manufactured in standard weight, extra Strong, Schedule 160. What do you usually do in these situation?

 

[MikeHalloran]

Sorry Richard , but this answer does not help so much! I am not talk about suppliers, but about standard ASTM/ASME. And of course, I will keep on reading and studying.

What you should be studying is catalogs. Every one you can find. Cover to cover.
In aggregate, they cover exactly the material you are clearly not understanding from standards.

Standards are not intended to teach anyone anything; every word is bitterly fought over, to define limits with some precision. The text is not intended for neophytes.

Catalogs, on the other hand, are intended to distribute information. They even include pictures.

Star for dicksewerrat.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[pennpiper]

francescociani88,
Do you usually use for fitting and flanges the same schedule of the related pipe. (Yes) In some manuals I read that fittings are commercially manufactured in standard weight, extra Strong, Schedule 160. What do you usually do in these situation?
Match up the fitting Wall thickness designation with the proper pipe wall designation.
See this chart:

http://www.engineersedge.com/pipe_schedules.htm

I also suggest you look at the data available on the following website: pipingdesigners.com

Check out the "Learn" page (Tips, Tools & Training)

Sometimes its possible to do all the right things and still get bad results

 

[LittleInch]

Frances, fittings are often MANUFACTURED in the thickest material likley to be used then machined down to what you want or to create stocks of common pipe thicknesses. To avoid sudden changes in wall thicknesses and welding issues, you match up the thickness of welded fittings to the adjacent pipe.

Try having a look at asme b16.5 and b16.9 to see what is defined. Vendor websites are pretty good now a well. You really should have a general statement on your mto to confirm which standard you're working to. The use of #150 implies asme codes, but much better to state it somewhere.



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[SNORGY]

I'm not quite as unforgiving on this.

1) 3'' Flange WN, A 105, 150# RF, SCH 40
First of all my bosses convinced me that in flanges has to be indicated the schedule too. Is that right? ( I accepted this, but with some reservation)
What else should I add too in order to make a complete description?

I think any supplier worth being a supplier would be able to figure out the right flange to supply from this description.


2)3'' Gasket 150# RF, 32 c 28
What else should I add too in order to make a complete description?

Pennpiper's clarification is as good as any, although there might be other fillers besides graphite that are suitable.


3) 3 X 1/2 Thredolet, A 105
First of all is it needed to specify "3x"
Should I add the class (e.g #3000)

Yes, you should add the "Class 3000" or "3000#", but given the other things in the BOM and in light of the specified service, it ought to be obvious to a good supplier that a 3000# fitting is appropriate.

4) 2 1/2''x 1 1/2 conc. SWG. A 234 WPB
Someone commented to this that all swages should be A106. Is that right? Someone can explain me why?

I think you can indeed specify certain swages to A-234-WPB, as well as A-106-B and a host of other specifications, but MOST people might prefer to specify A-106-B.

5) 1''x 1 1/2'' welded reducing tee with threaded oulted.
My bosses told me that this material does not exist. How can I know if this material exist or not?

It would unusual for the branch to be threaded with the run socket weld; a standard fitting would likely be all one or all the other. To meet this description as written, some suppliers might start with a THD x THD x THD tee and then ream the threads out of the run to convert it to a SW x SW x THD tee. I don't condone the practice, but people have done it. I would be inclined to get a SW x SW x SW tee and then go to a SW x THD nipple on the branch.

6)2 1/2'' flange threade (male) 150# RF
My bosses told me that this material does not exist. How can I know if this material exist or not? Can threaded flanges be male? Are there limitation for threaded Flanges?

OK, on this one, your bosses are correct.

You might want to see if you can find a Crane catalogue kicking around, or see if your company has a set of piping specifications to help you bring your level of understanding of the nomenclature to the next level. While your attempt at the BOM was not precise nor technically correct in all aspects, it wasn't THAT bad.

 

[MJCronin]

Frances... Buy this and read it....

Ya gotta crawl before you can walk....

http://www.amazon.com/Pipe-Drafting...&qid=1436634555&sr=1-3&keywords=piping+design

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[Ciaci]

Thanks MJCronin. I have already bought and read it. The best book of piping that I read. All my doubt are about things that are omitted in this book e.g. this book says that fittings are commercially manufactured in standard weight, extra Strong, Schedule 160, but as other engineers said it depends on the pipe used most of the time. If anyone have other suggestion about books and other stuff, I am open to every suggestion.

 

[bimr]

Why don't you look into the previous MTO's and see how these items were previously specified? You can also ask questions from the existing suppliers of these piping components.

 

[Ciaci]

Unfortunately bimr the situation is more complex. My company has an high level of experience in fire protection in industrial building, most of the time sprinkler plant, where some piping detail are not always required from suppliers and where there is not so much variety of fittings etc. So it was the first time that we faced this kind of drawings with attached BOM. In this case my company does not have the direct relation with supplier, because we are a contractor of another one. So I do not neither know which will be our supplier.