Pipeline Flange 1500# standard (equivalent to mss sp 40) 3

[Ehsan301]

Hello
In our system we have a 1500# pipe line and the material of the flange is A694 F52.
The pressure rating of the material is covered up to 900# in mss sp 40 but 1500# is not covered.
In which standard can I find the pressure rating for the 1500# flange of this material?
Thanks.
(Also, since the pressure rating of this material is quite similar to A105 in B16.5 and the pressure does not go over 190 and temperature is below 100, I can safely assume that the material and rating is adequate, but I want to know which standard covers 1500# pipeline flanges)

 

[LittleInch]

I don't think there is one.

Class 1500 is very high for a pipeline.

Hence why no one specifies it.

And do you mean mss sp 44?

So you're in a bit of no man's land. B16.5 will cover you, but A694 Fxx isn't listed.

If you use A105 for temp press rating you're probably OK, but you need to make that decision yourself.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[The Obturator]

As LittleInch has stated, the material is not listed in the main specifications. I did find this where I guess the supplier has calculated the pressure ratings. Use this with caution as there is no reference how these values were determine (tabulation in lower part of the web page) - Use for guidance only.

https://www.rajtilakmetal.com/astm-a694-f52-flanges.html

*** Per ISO-4126, the generic term
'Safety Valve' is used regardless of application or design ***

*** 'Pressure-relief Valve' is the equivalent ASME/API term ***

 

[LittleInch]

Basically they are making it up and if you look carefully you'll figure out what they think A694 is equivalent to as a naferial group in B16.5. I'm not going to look but it's prob group 1 1 or 1.2.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Krausen]

Why would you have a 1500# flange in a system with such a low design pressure & temperature? What is the size of flange?

 

[LittleInch]

The 190 I'm taking to be 190 bar.... not psi.

But we might never know?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Ehsan301]

Thank you for your replies. Yes I meant mss sp 44 and the pressure is 190 bar and the temperature is 93 C.
@The Obturator
Thanks for the link. But the according to mss sp 44 for temperatures below 100 the working pressure up to class 900 is similar to A105 which is different from the table of that website.
The working pressure of the system is still way lower than what is reported in that website (3600 psi vs 2756 psi)

 

[LittleInch]

Out of curiosity I have looked up the ratings for B16.5 and for reasons which are not clear, they have chosen group 2.1 materials which are 18Cr - 8NI, A182 gr F304 forgings.

They are lower than A105 pressure/ temperature ratings.

BEWARE OF UNITS..100 in that table from the Obdurator is in Deg F.

So 93C is approx 200F which on that table is 3000 psi / 210 bar.

So in reality you're probably OK, but you won't be able to prove it or reference a specification or standard.

Oh and please don't be lazy and use the 1500#... It is supposed to be "ASME Class 1500". 1500# is often used to mean 1500 lbs or psi, not class 1500. I know it's still commonplace to use this, but it isn't correct and can be confusing, all for the sake of writing (ASME) class 1500. Oh and it ceased to be ANSI for about 50 years..

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[GD2]

OP,
You can't take A105 as the equivalent of A694 F52 as they are not in the same material grouping. These are neither closely matched nor have similar YS values. Example: Yield strength are 36 ksi Vs 52 ksi.
You could have used B16.5 Non-Mandatory Appendix A to determine the P-T ratings for the F52 flanges but unfortunately, A694 don't show up in Sec II Part D Stress Tables/ Table U or Table Y.
If you want to really explore the material property, MPC might provide information on material property as a function of temperature.
SMYS and SMTS are based at room temp (up to 38C), it will have lower values at 100C but how much, you might take help of MPC.


GDD
Canada

 

[r6155]

@ Ehsan301
"In our system we have a 1500# pipe line and the material of the flange is A694 F52"
Don't you have the documentation for this pipeline?

 

[akpipelineengr]

This is a strange no-man's-land of the codes, but flanges per A694 and A707 in this size and pressure class are common and have a long service history in my region, and are specified by multiple major operators' pipe specs. In short, the dimensions of the flanges meet B16.5 and the pressure rating matches the B16.5 Group 1.1 rating at 100°F, and is extended to 250°F based SP-44 Table 4 and the applicable pipeline code (e.g., para. 404.1.2).

 

[LittleInch]

Yup,

I've never worked out why B16.5 doesn't include A694 Fxx material given its used so frequently in pipelines, nor how MSS-SP-44 somehow extends the P-T data to give you higher allowables than your standard A105 material.

So yes it almost certainly will and does "work", but proving it via codes and standards doesn't work at class 1500....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Ehsan301]

@GDD
Thank you for your reply but I don't understand what you mean by MPC. Can you tell me what does it mean? thanks.

@r6155
In the basic engineering this material is selected and is referenced to MSS SP 44 which is not correct. So no, there are no valid documentation about how this material is selected.

 

[LittleInch]

Well MSS SP 44 is more correct than B 16.5....

At least it lists it as a material. If not at class 1500.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.