piping walk_down 4

[simplemath]

I am going to do a piping walk_down for an aged petro plant. Try to get prepared but do not know where to start.
I would like to ask for procedures from you experienced guys.
All pipe are utility (steam, water and instrument air ) and instrumentation hook-up.Small quantity. Size is up to 12".Replace existing and tie in new piping both.
No existing plan or elevation drawing. Has P&ID only.
The purpose is to identify tie in with operation personnel and work out routing.

I would like to have procedures, list of information to get from operational and drawing to help walk_down.

Thanks


--It boils down to simple math--

 

[Zapster]

Here is a WAG:
1. Paper
2. Writing implement
3. Ability to draw an Isometric sketch
4. Tape measure
5. Circumference tape measure
6. Clipboard or something to draw on
7. Pipe data book (or you can download an excel sheet “Steel Pipe Vessel Data “ at

http://www.pipingdesigners.com/Tools.htm#fitg

if you can bring a laptop)
8. Typical flange dimensions for classes and pipe sizes you are likely to encounter
9. A high resolution camera (make sure that you ask the operator in charge if you can take pictures to prevent accidental alarm activations or violation of area classifications)
10. A thorough understanding of the P&IDs and an understanding of what they are planning to accomplish.
11. Ensure that you know what your responsibilities are for hydraulic analysis.
12. Ensure that you know when you need to consider transients flow analysis.
13. Ensure that have sufficient experience to know when/if a flexure analysis might be necessary.
14. Ensure that you walk away with a comfortable feeling that you know the temperatures and pressures of the lines of interest and the possible upset conditions.
15. Get the equipment data for any pumps, exchangers, turbines, etc that your piping may affect either hydraulically or from a pipe/nozzle stress perspective.
16. Flagging material and some string might be helpful.
17. A copy of the petro company’s pipe specs if they have them.
18. Identify the relevant piping codes.

 

[BigInch]

See if you can copy a sat photo of the plant from Google Earth or somewhere to serve as a plot plan.

Several cans of fluorescent spray paint and a line number stencil.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[pennpiper]

Before you leave your home office be sure to define the objective of the effort. It would be a shame to spend a week in the field and then come home with the wrong data.

Find out who the prime contact is in the plant.

A word about safety. Do not go alone and get the Safety training specific to this plant.

 

[simplemath]

Thank Zapster, BigInch and pennpiper for your valuable input.

Safety is my top concern since the plant has been over 5 decades. I will ask about onsite safety training.

I am interested to know what to use to flag the line and tiein location that could last for monthes and survive weather condition. Any name in mind?

Google map is a good idea.

The client specification has no word of piping code be used or piping testing requirement.Since all utility piping, is it acceptble to perform NDE and not perform any hydro or pneumatic testing? The answer to this will decide using tie-in tiein flange or not.

Thanks.

--It boils down to simple math--

 

[BigInch]

Google Earth (not maps) or MSN Virtual Earth has satellite photos.

Assuming also that your client is in Oklahoma too, ASME B31.3 code would be my best bet. You'll probably have to do some hydrotest somewhere. If its B31.3, its all in there, except for the experience part.

Mark the area with wooden stakes and police crime scene ribbon, or yellow snow. Either one of those'll keep almost everyone away.





**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[simplemath]

Biginch, you are right on piping testing. I thought revapm project is beyond B31.3 scope but apparently it is not. I will check the line table to see if in cat D. Otherwise I have to find a way to do testing.

i do not think wooden stakes and police crime scene ribbon are feasible. Do not know what is yellow snow. I might have to use magic pen I used on pile numbering before if out of options. But magic pen faded with time.

Thanks.




--It boils down to simple math--

 

[BigInch]

Revamp testing is just as, if not more, important.

Large wooden stakes last long enough to build a pipeline. Once covered in snow they tend to remain in place (OK you have to replace some). Do you think somebody will steal them?

The crime scene stuff was a joke, sorry. And just take my word for it, stay away from yellow snow.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[JohnBreen]

Digital camera???

Take some time at every spring hanger and document the type (variable, constant, hanger , stanchion...), manufacturer, model, figure, size. Look at the load scale when the system is hot and see what loading the indicator is showing and when the indicator is relative to the "hot setting" mark. Get the same data for each spring hanger in the cold (ambient temperature) condition. Look for damage or missing hardware at every hanger. Take a photo and record the photo number and the location of the hanger in the photo. AND be sure the travel stops have been removed from every hanger (YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED AT HOW MANY SPRING HANGER TRAVEL STOPS ARE LEFT IN PLACE AT THE INITIAL START-UP).

Remember that spring hangers represent a lot of stored energy and do not get your fingers into the works. Count all your fingers and toes before you start and after you are finished - good luck.

John

 

[rconner]

I guess Zapster or others may have hit on this already in his latter points, but you might want to note somehow any posted procedures and/or available "calibration" sticker/data available (or missing etc.) on such things as pressure/temperature etc. gauges/loggers etc. and relevant to the piping etc.

 

[ndeguy]

BigInch

Are you a Frank Zappa fan by any chance?

Nigel Armstrong
Lloyds Register
Independent Verification Body Surveyor

 

[BigInch]

Me... Stones!

I imagine that Zapster would be the Zappa fan.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[JLSeagull]

Although most would think a bit whacko, the group with Zappa played very well.

Physically attach labels and ribbons at the likely tie points. Document the approximate locations in distance from rigid objects like pipe rack columns. Get a camera permit and take lots of digital photographs. We use google earth photo images for rough plans on existing poorly documented facilities.

 

[unclesyd]

Even though we have line numbers and contents taped to each line we also have a small placard showing a cross section of the pipe bridge at each bent where the lines branch or turn. The small drawing has a simple number on each line depicted along with the size. Engineering Drafting is responsible for the updating the information. Any computer on site that needs information on a particular line can bring up the complete information about a line, aside from the physicals one can drill down for history. History covers everything else, original installation, project,calculations, and inspections.

 

[rconner]

[As long as folks are dating themselves I understand this week in Birmingham the Eagles introduced themselves as being on "The Assisted Living tour" (or something to that effect)!!]

 

[dcasto]

i'd have my UT tester handy too.

 

[ndeguy]

I saw Grandmothers of Invention a few months back with several original members of the Mothers.

They took a while to warm up (what can one expect of Grandmothers) but they made excellent music once they had done. Excellent versions of Peaches n Regalia, Dinah Mo Humm and other excellent Zappa works.

Sorry for thread hi-jack. For all Slovenian readers, My son and I have our tickets for Laibach!!!



Nigel Armstrong
Lloyds Register
Independent Verification Body Surveyor

 

[omanpiper]

This is how we do it.

1. Do a desk top study and mark up all the proposed tie in points on the P&ID in consultation with the process engineers

2. For tie in points, a thin steel steel disc/ plate is tied on to the pipe with stainless steel wire, where the tapping is proposed and the tie in number punched on the plate and marked with yellow paint on the parent pipe.

3. Photographs of the location are also taken to record it in the tie in study report as well as to help the designers while preparing the drawings.

 

[Gator]

Make your proposed tie-ins near an anchor. Wear a safety harness if hanging off a rack (this may not be necessary if you are young and invulnerable). Bring a plumb bob, and two people - one to hold the ladder and one as a tape end holder. Long-range green laser pointer, maybe a paintball gun.

High-resolution digital camera (as has been already mentioned), sheets of mylar and plastic pencil leads if you have to draw/write in the rain or underwater, "CSI"-type graduated markers as much as possible in photos.

Also plan on one return trip, because it's inevitable that you'll have missed something after introspection back at the office. Scuba/breathing/HAZMAT suits as appropriate.