Plan Dimensions / Confrontational Contractor

[cnickers]

I got a call from a foundation subcontractor asking for dimensions on my foundation plan. I told him that it is not standard practice for the structurals to show dimensions and that he needed to reference the architecturals for all dimensions. My thought is that for me to provide dimensions would be a "Means and Methods" issue. Does anyone agree/disagree? The guy was really rude and confrontational and I'd like to have a very clear response for him.

 

[dik]

Rgerk...

Sure, blame would fall squarely on the architect , but what good does that do?"

I'm not sure that's the case... FWIW, I've even had problems when XREFS are used... often no one seems to update things... some offices make sketches independent from the drawings and changes are not carried to the original cad files.

Dik

 

[Lion06]

When I get rebar shop drawings in (what the contractor generally builds off of), I always put a general note "Architect to verify all dimensions" before I send it back to the architect and GC.
Do subs that you work with really build off of your foundation plan?

 

[cvg]

"Do subs that you work with really build off of your foundation plan?"

That seems to be the point to preparing the drawings. Can't expect the general contractor or the architect to coordinate everything - verifying dimensions often falls to the guy actually doing the work. I don't want the backhoe operator or the grade staker or anybody else to make an incorrect interpretation of the plans, just because he is too lazy to go get the entire roll or to call the architect - who is probably out to lunch...

 

[Lion06]

CVG-
What I meant was, don't they build off of the shop drawings, not your structural foundation plan? If they build off of the structural foundation plan, I would say what is the point of the shop drawings.

 

[cvg]

again (and this is my limited viewpoint as I am not a civil engineer and do a lot more work in heavy construction than in buildings) the shop drawings (for foundation) may be done by a steel supplier which is supplying steel for use by the concrete / foundation contractor. General contractor is supposed to check them, so is the engineer (or architect). But who's to say the steel guy doing the shop drawings has a full set of plans? or looked at them?

 

[grandcasita]

And what happens, if you don't dimension the plan, you ref. the architectural, and the arch changes a dimension which makes the design unsafe (say, increases a span by several feet)?

We always dimension everything necessary to build, (aside from things like CL steel to face of brick). As said by others, it may be unnecessary in some cases, but your design is based on certain dimensions.

 

[JAE]

Good point, grandcasita.
Lack of control of dimensions can create unsafe conditions.

 

[zcp]

I think everyone here has missed the biggest point of all. The sub actually called for help. You should do all you can to help him even if it means coordinating with the architect yourself. It will lead to a lot a future business if you become known as the guy who can answer the questions. Pushing it off on the architect leads to misstrust and diminishes the role of engineer on the project. As said above, what if the architect changes a dimension that makes the structural design unsafe? The safety of the public is in the hands of the engineer. Don't pass that off.

ZCP

http://www.phoenix-engineer.com