Planning my career at 40 3

[Kay2020]

I hope it's okay that I've joined this forum. I'm not yet an engineer. Until now I've been content to lurk, but I am having trouble planning my career path, and would love some input from those already working as engineers. If my post here is inappropriate, feel free to delete it, and I will go back to lurking.

I left college 15 years ago to home educate my children. Now that the eldest has graduated, and the youngest is in high school, I'm starting to think of my own dreams once again. I have all but decided I'll pursue civil engineering. I'm a roofers daughter and worked with my dad during the summers as a child. I worked alongside him as his assistant and even got paid some. I've always had a fascination with woodworking and building things, houses in particular. Building forts was a favorite game. About 10 years ago, my husband and I designed and built our own cabin. I taught myself how to do plumbing and wiring, and investigated the idea of harnessing solar energy. Ultimately, we chose to connect to the grid, but we did use an alternate grey water system, which I also designed. I learned a lot. Mostly, I learned that I crave opportunities to find practical solutions to problems and to see them become tangible.

Based on things I've been reading, I've got some concerns that I will either not be able to land an entry level position in Civil, or else I will have to settle for doing something which doesn't involve much design at all. Because of these concerns, I'm also considering Electronic/Computer Engineering, which I understand has a better job outlook. While I don't have the same passion and familiarity with that area, the coursework looks fun and I would choose it if it was the only way I could actually do engineering. In other words, I don't want to get an engineering degree just to "open doors" and wind up doing something totally unrelated. I'm not sure I have a specific question with regards to civil vs electronic. I mention it solely to explain where I'm at in my planning process. Even so, I welcome any input.

My actual question is this: what sorts of things should I be doing during the 2-3 years I have before I can begin engineering school? I'm not comfortable beginning until my son has graduated, because I know the rigors of engineering classes will leave little time for him. Currently I'm brushing up on my math and physics and I plan to learn either C or C++. Besides that, I've considered getting an AAS in drafting, which would only take about 3 semesters and shouldn't be too much of a sacrifice. Would it make me more competitive? If not is there some other class I could take which would help?

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Make sure you are fluent in computereze... know your way around MS programs like Word, Excel if you have plans to do engineering of any kind (sounds like it), Project and Visio might be useful in some cases but I wouldn't concentrate on them. If you're leaning towards architectural stuff, make sure you're comfortable with CAD... learning some of the 3D functionality of those programs can also be quite useful.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[moltenmetal]

Unless you're really fascinated by the computer stuff, don't just go that way because you think it may have better job prospects. If you go into civil/structural though, the path to full licensure in the 'States is a long one. Doesn't mean you couldn't have a very fulfilling career while getting there. The issue related to finding an entry level position is very real though. Unless you can figure out a way to make that transition easy, or to create a job, you're taking a leap of faith. While no education is a waste, I'm assuming that putting three or four years of your life into pursuing an education in a profession at your stage of your life is not something you want to undertake just as an opportunity for personal growth- there's a financial outcome expected at the end of it, to pay back the serious investment required to make this happen.

My advice on this is the same as for every person pursuing engineering later in life: pursue what you love, but only after you really educate yourself about what those people really do once they're working, rather than what you imagine they might do. If you go for it, go to a co-op university so you have a book of contacts and a list of experience prior to graduation that will help you make the school-work transition- it will also make you a better engineer at the end of all of it, because work experience gained while learning actually meaningfully focuses your educational experience and puts it in some context. Be realistic about employment prospects from the get-go, and be READY to deal with the fact that recruiters are going to be, for very realistic reasons, concerned that you will expect to be on a steeper salary growth curve than any other fresh grad engineer merely because of your age. I'd say that may put you out of the running for many potential jobs- but definitely not all.

I wish you the very best of luck.

 

[Jboggs]

Kay,
Wow! I would hire you right now! Your attitude is SO MUCH better than the typical young college graduate. I would be confident that no matter what challenge you were given you would do whatever it took, including self-study on unfamiliar subjects, to get it done. Trust me, with an attitude like that you will have no problem staying employed. Assuming that is the case, then I would put the highest priority on doing the work you love. That way its never really "work".

Your story describes all the stuff you have done, but none of it seems to focus directly on civil engineering or computer engineering. So, I'm curious why you seem to focus on those rather than the one that seems more obvious to me - mechanical. A good mechanical engineer can end up working in such a wide and diverse number of fields. He/She can design buildings or bridges, space ships or submarines, power plants or tunnels, hearing aids or prosthetic limbs, high speed automation or heavy fabrications, and it goes on and on.

I might be slightly biased, being mechanical. An old mechanical engineer's joke: What's the difference between mechanical engineers and civil engineers? Mechanical engineers build weapons; civil engineers build targets. Yuck, yuck!

And just so you don't get too full of yourself: The difference between cowboy boots and engineer boots? Cowboy boots have the BS on the outside.

 

[JNieman]

This is a gamble, and it is dependent upon your workplace and personal ability BUT:

It is possible that you might be better served aiming to become a Designer (someone between engineer and drafter).

I say this because the academic path is shorter, but there is a vast magnitude of self-teaching and personal development that has to be done. Given someone that is as mature and motivated as you are, I believe that would be less of an issue. You could achieve a great level of personal satisfaction, be in a field that interests you (If civil/structural is such an interest) and it would have a very high ceiling of growth that you may never hit.

Your employer must support this. In the civil/structural field, it is quite common, though.

My old boss started work at Brown&Root in Houston before he started his own business with a couple others where I became his first employee. Anyways, we often discussed the evolving roles of drafters and engineers due to the new CAD technologies. We started thinking the drafter was becoming obsolete in many fields. He disagreed because he said in many companies such as his former place at Brown & Root, drafters could often become great designers if they had the personal potential. He said they would often reach much better pay than engineers, sometimes even the licensed engineers if situations supported it. They would do all the design work, supply calculations, CAD models, and would only require an engineer to review it when necessary.

Anyways... I wouldn't discount the drafting angle, but I would caution that it's a lot of work if you want to be 'more than a drafter'.

Above all: Never stop learning. Never accept anything short of mastery of your skillset, and you'll get whatever you aim for.

_________________________________________
NX8.0, Solidworks 2014, AutoCAD, Enovia V5

 

[mtu1972]

I designed buildings for 39+ years and never knew a mechanical engineer that had the slightest clue of designing structural steel or reinforced concrete, much less prestressed concrete, etc. And yes we (Civil Eng's.) were denigrated as "Simple Civil's" back in college; but the structures option was a very small subset of the overall Civil enrollment. 3 out of 105 in my class.

There may be some overlap between Mech. and Civil in some areas like Fluid Mechanics (Hydraulics) but not buildings and bridges.

That said, look for a college that has a well rounded curriculum that covers the various structural materials. Not all cover wood (timber) and masonry. Don't know whether you have one in close proximity or are thinking about doing it on-line.

The toughest part of school is the first 2 years where the focus is on math, chemistry, and physics. I loved math and physics, but tolerated the year of chemistry as I knew it had very little to do with what I wanted to learn. 3 terms; 1 year and all I know is 7 is neutral on the ph scale. But maybe you are already past the first 2 years.

Once you graduate, there is continued learning on the job. This is where you are way ahead of the curve. Besides the personal experiences you have described, the Home-schooling of your children has to have required a great deal of learning on your part as well. You would enter the workforce with so many more tools than the typical BS graduate that you could be far more valuable to any engineering/construction firm.

Good luck in your future plans. Although with the little we know about you, I doubt luck will have little to do with your outcome.



gjc

 

[IRstuff]

I keep hearing that "Find something you like to do and you'll never work a day in your life." Obviously a cute aphorism, which isn't completely true, but true enough. If you are passionate AND good at what you do, that'll make up for a lot of other things. My wife attempted to get an A+ cert in C++ a while ago, but she hated it.

So, do what you'll get out of bed for; that's the real test.

TTFN
faq731-376

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529

Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

 

[brandonbw]

I would say go for a BS in Civil Engineering. I have worked with drafters from ITT Tech that could do design work as well. I also worked with a project manager who probably only had a high school degree. But this was not normal from what I have seen. Eventually you will want your PE if you work in this industry and enjoy it. The full degree will help towards that goal. I still think drafters get phased out for engineers who can draft. Not the other way around.

Your motivation for getting into this is similar to mine, that's why I say go for it. People that are enthusiastic about the work move forward faster, because really you don't mind working harder as its fun in some crazy way. Don't get into computers because the job outlook is better. If you want that route, get an engineering degree and go into investment banking. Having experience building things is a plus even if its not related to what you eventually get into. Civil Engineering has a pretty wide scope.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

 

[Kay2020]

Thanks for all the great responses everyone. You've given me some things to think about. I'm still wondering though whether I should bother getting an AAS in drafting. Will it help me land an entry level position, or would it be a waste of time? Perhaps just "a" class in CAD would be sufficient?

MacGyver, I know my way around MS Word and Excel pretty well. These days, who doesn't? I've done some fairly complicated things with Excel, but I haven't yet figured out how to do forms. Do you think it would be good to learn VBA? My MS suite doesn't have project or visio, but I love to mess around with productivity software. So I may upgrade to the MS business suite for a year so I can gain experience with those. Thanks for the tips.

MoltenMetal, we can't relocate at this time in our lives due to my husbands job. I'm not sure if the local university has a co-op program, but it does require 800hrs of work experience in order to graduate. So I'm assuming they will provide at least some assistance with finding internships. You are right, it does feel like a leap of faith. Yet, even a chance of doing something you love is better than the certainty of doing something you hate, don't you think? Can you recommend ways I can find out more about what civil engineers do, besides lurking around here? The only engineers I know are mechanical engineers. Neither are doing engineering work, as far as I'm aware.

Jboggs, thanks! The realist in me worries I won't get a job, especially when competing with so many younger candidates. So it's good to hear that my get-er-done attitude and willingness to learn are marketable traits. I suppose I should keep that in mind when interviewing for jobs. At the same time, I am surprised to hear that this type of attitude is that unusual. I'd expect most engineers to be type of people who find ways to make it happen, constantly learning knew things as needed.


JNieman, are you referring to an associate degree in engineering design? There is nothing like that offered in my area. However, somewhere online I saw mention of a design certificate (or license) I could tack onto a BS in Engineering. Now I can't find it. Are you aware of anything like that?

mtu1972, thanks for the tip. My university offers a degree in Civil and Construction Engineering. There are specific courses in steel, concrete, reinforced concrete, and structural steel. No specific courses in wood, though it seems to be covered in the Materials and Methods classes. Of course, this isn't a complete list, but the rest of the courses don't deal specificially with materials, but rather their application, such as highways, foundations, etc. Does this sound well rounded enough? I'm happy to be continually learning. In fact, I thrive on it. Like I told Jboggs, I'm surprised this puts me "ahead of the curve". I would think it would be a core engineer trait. You are right, homeschooling has required a great deal of continual learning. Unlike a teacher, I didn't benefit from being able to use the same curriculum year after year. Every year was new and had to be developed from scratch. Of course, there are "boxed" curricula out there for homeschoolers, but I was never content with anything out of the box. ha!

IRstuff, well said and thank you!

brandonbw, I'm glad to hear that my experiences and motivations sound familiar to a civil engineer. That's reaffirming. Thanks. Just to clarify though, I'm not considering an Associate degree in drafting instead of Engineering. I'm here asking if an AAS in drafting will better help me land an entry level job as an engineer. It's something I feel I would enjoy and can easily do while I finish homeschooling my son before I start engineering school.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

MacGyver, I know my way around MS Word and Excel pretty well. These days, who doesn't? I've done some fairly complicated things with Excel, but I haven't yet figured out how to do forms. Do you think it would be good to learn VBA? My MS suite doesn't have project or visio, but I love to mess around with productivity software. So I may upgrade to the MS business suite for a year so I can gain experience with those.

A lot of people starting tech careers later in life don't have experience with computers, hence the suggestion. You have it, so you're good. I wouldn't worry about VBA unless you decide to get into programming as a career (or plan to write a LOT of macros in Excel).

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Kay2020]

Jboggs, you asked why not Mechanical? I'm just not as interested in machines as I am with structures. Whenever I enter a building, I find myself trying to figure out how it is built. I don't do that with machines.

 

[oldestguy]

There was no suggestion on really getting to know the fields, as in civil engineering. I have seen many women in that field, but most of their jobs were confined to office work. Now and then a woman gets out on the job, For one thing, construction is rough. Workmen can be difficult to work with, especially with an attractive person around. The physical conditions sometimes are not something some women want to put up with, such as hot sun, snow, mud, climbing ladders, etc.

However, there are several women, after a few years work, run their own company, sometimes due to a "minority" advantage at government projects, sometimes.

I'd call up a consulting engineering company and ask for a short tour of the office, telling them what your ideas are. Most firms that I know would be pleased to do that and may give you a few ideas also. Try different firms, civil, mechanical, electronic and electrical. for mechanical there may be an industry of interest. You won't get to see everything, but will help in making a decision. It may be that a state or city engineering department might interest you, but that is somewhat limiting your options. Most that I know of do not do any real engineering, but it gets hired out. Administration of jobs is common, as inspectors.

 

[brandonbw]

Just about everyone I know works in an office and rarely if ever visits the field. That was one of the main reasons I started my business. I was being pigeonholed because of how much money I was making for places to always be doomed in front of the computer screen. They wouldn't even let me tag along for free! That's how willing I was to gain experience.

Oldestguy makes a good point. Being able to talk to the guys while in the field is very different than talking in the office or over the phone. The nonfiltering talk makes me smile every single time. Even the dress code is different. The real dangers on a site are a nice change of pace to the safe PC.

I think its good to learn CAD in the office environment. The classes that I have taken seem too generic, and those were meant for Civils. The best way to learn is ask a lot of questions from whomever looks like they are running the show. Could be the nerdy old guy, the younger pure drafter, or even an owner. You never know. And surely any BS in Civil is teaching some form of basic CAD. I was using CAD back in 1997 when I started my degree.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer

http://bwengr.com

 

[Kay2020]

oldestGuy and brandon,

Coming from a construction oriented family and the only girl in a family 7, I feel right at home on a construction site around a bunch of men. One of the things that attracted me to Civil was the idea that I'd get to visit the site once a week or so. I've worked from a cubicle before, and I don't think I would like being stuck there 24/7 for years. On the other hand, it's not enough to make me consider a different career either. Are there any ways to ensure I get a job that allows me to get into the field more often?

Regarding computer modeling, my college requires a class in BIM. Is that all I need?

 

[oldestguy]

Great to hear your background. Yes, civils do get out a lot if the section they are in does that. However, sticking with some phases may be more office oriented, such as structural. One job not necessarily doing any engineering is property surveying, but that usually is the result of a trade school these days. I'm a geotech which has most of its work deals with job sites before and during construction. Take BigH, a regular here. He is full time out on hydroelectric projects world wide. For the geotech side, visit a consulting firm that specializes in site investigations, field control of site preparations, etc. Report writing is a must. Phase I and II studies of for-sale property evaluations for hazardous materials possibly present or suitability for solid waste landfills is interesting. They may also do construction materials testing (a lot of concrete and pavements) and field evaluations, such as testing structural connection bolts for proper torque or life remaining in a pavement. Special problems such as vibrations or blasting affecting structures may be dealt with. Along with it the firm probably has a testing laboratory, requiring engineering supervision and reports. You might even be out inspecting test boring jobs, specially as an early position (in all weather conditions). Come with a pair of big boots. Later on you might be known as an expert witness in situations like gas explosions, trench cave-ins, etc. Much of what I indicate above is not taught in college, but is learned other ways later, such as seminars. Basic construction materials testing and soil mechanics courses will get you started. Summer testing jobs will help.

 

[oldestguy]

Just one more thought. For any field you might look at, go to the rooms under this web site for Civil engineering, Geotechnical as well as structural, maybe mechanical. Lots of subjects discussed to give some idea of the jobs. There are sub-rooms for most.

 

[Ron]

Kay... You will have no problem landing a job when you graduate with a degree in Civil Engineering. It is a very broad discipline of engineering and offers countless opportunities. You have a terrific attitude and a lot of life experiences and practical experiences that are valuable to an employer. I've been a civil/structural engineer for over 35 years...it has, so far, been more fun than I deserve. I've been extremely fortunate to have done a lot of different pieces and parts of civil and structural engineering.

Go for it and good luck!

 

[mtu1972]

I mentioned wood and masonry because they were so prevalent in the small commercial development projects that were a big part of my early career. MTU taught Timber Design and I was often the only engineer within the companies I worked at that had that background. Others were learning on the go. Masonry was not taught back then, but Working Stress concrete design was still being taught as they were not sure the Ultimate Strength (LRFD) method that was being introduced was going to stick. I got into a small consulting office and they expected me to know how to design masonry. Fortunately, it was very similar to Working Stress concrete design, only with a weaker material.

I grew up in an engineering family. Dad and Grandpa were project engineers with the MI Highway Dept. Two uncles taught at MTU. Sunday morning family discussions were always about engineering projects and Civil Engineering topics. We were driven across the UP to see the Mackinaw Bridge while it was under construction. Dad's connections got us (Dad, my brother, and I) out on the bridge on an off day (probably a Sunday). We were relatively young, but it made a lasting impression on me.

My fascination was always with buildings. Started with Lincoln Logs and progressed onto a skyscraper building set I had in my early teens. As I stated earlier, the 1st year and a half of college was the hardest for me. I got good grades, but it had nothing to do with what I was interested in. That all changed when I got into Statics and Strength of Materials at the end of my 2nd year. Junior year, I got into the basic Civil Eng. classes, which included the elementary structural analysis and design classes. Senior year, all of my CE electives were structural engineering classes.

I also look up to see how the buildings are supported. My wife still gets annoyed (I was looking up to see the roof of her church during our wedding ages ago) and still will stumble over something at my feet because I am not watching where we are going. I don't expect to ever change.

The courses as you described will be fine. I'm sure that they do cover all of the basic/common building materials. The foundations course will be very valuable as all buildings/structures need to be supported on them.

And as it has been stated, the BS degree is just the start of the engineering learning process. You'll be introduced to company standards, meet co-workers with specific knowledge you don't have yet, study for the PE, and then need the required Cont. Educ. credits to maintain your license, etc. That you are organizing and planning well ahead of your journey will pay off for you.

And I think you are engaging many mentors that would be willing to help you along the way.


gjc

 

[Kay2020]

I'd call up a consulting engineering company and ask for a short tour of the office, telling them what your ideas are. Most firms that I know would be pleased to do that and may give you a few ideas also. Try different firms, civil, mechanical, electronic and electrical. for mechanical there may be an industry of interest. You won't get to see everything, but will help in making a decision. It may be that a state or city engineering department might interest you, but that is somewhat limiting your options. Most that I know of do not do any real engineering, but it gets hired out. Administration of jobs is common, as inspectors.

...Yes, civils do get out a lot if the section they are in does that. However, sticking with some phases may be more office oriented, such as structural. One job not necessarily doing any engineering is property surveying, but that usually is the result of a trade school these days. I'm a geotech which has most of its work deals with job sites before and during construction. Take BigH, a regular here. He is full time out on hydroelectric projects world wide. For the geotech side, visit a consulting firm that specializes in site investigations, field control of site preparations, etc. Report writing is a must. Phase I and II studies of for-sale property evaluations for hazardous materials possibly present or suitability for solid waste landfills is interesting. They may also do construction materials testing (a lot of concrete and pavements) and field evaluations, such as testing structural connection bolts for proper torque or life remaining in a pavement. Special problems such as vibrations or blasting affecting structures may be dealt with. Along with it the firm probably has a testing laboratory, requiring engineering supervision and reports. You might even be out inspecting test boring jobs, specially as an early position (in all weather conditions). Come with a pair of big boots. Later on you might be known as an expert witness in situations like gas explosions, trench cave-ins, etc. Much of what I indicate above is not taught in college, but is learned other ways later, such as seminars. Basic construction materials testing and soil mechanics courses will get you started. Summer testing jobs will help.

oldestguy, I like your idea of contacting construction firms to ask for a quick tour. Do you have any tips for what to say or who to ask for when calling? Or would it be better to email? Thanks for giving me a good visual of what types of work is involved in your field. Did your university offer a degree in Geotech, or did you get a BS in Civil, specializing in geotech?

 

[Kay2020]

Kay... You will have no problem landing a job when you graduate with a degree in Civil Engineering. It is a very broad discipline of engineering and offers countless opportunities. You have a terrific attitude and a lot of life experiences and practical experiences that are valuable to an employer. I've been a civil/structural engineer for over 35 years...it has, so far, been more fun than I deserve. I've been extremely fortunate to have done a lot of different pieces and parts of civil and structural engineering.

Go for it and good luck!

Ron, thanks for the encouragement! Good to hear you still love your job. I have read how others hate their current job, not so much because they hate the field, but because they feel stuck in a position that doesn't allow them to use or develop their skills in the way they desire. Since you don't fall in that camp, perhaps you have a perspective on why this happens to some and and not others.