PLC training 5

[techzone12]

Right now I work in the Building Automation Industry, and I do a lot of “Sequence of Operation “ programming using company's proprietary upper level structured language (similar to BASIC or FORTRAN). The Hardware/Software I am using is not widely used, and I don't use ladder logic diagrams.

To advance my career and improve my marketability, I need to learn how to wire up and program PLC's for process and motor control. I need to learn the physical point to point wiring of inputs/outputs as much as the ladder logic programming.

I don't know what would be the best way to go about this?
Should I take a course in a University or technical school? Or should I just use some PLC simulation software (in conjunction with a good book)?

Any suggestion on which book, simulation software or educational kits, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[ScottI2R]

Hi Techzone,
Check out the book @

http://www.plcs.net.

This may be decent for understanding ladder logic and how a plc processes. You may also want to look at "

http://www.thelearningpit.com."

They have a pretty helpful forun @ plcs.net as well.

Hope this helps

Scott

In a hundred years, it isn't going to matter anyway.

 

[xnuke]

See faq791-640.

xnuke
"Do you think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[ScottI2R]

Yeah,
What Xnuke said! FAQ791-640. (Even found some new sites for myself!)
BTW Xnuke, since you are "X", does this mean you go "Fission" on a regular basis?

Scott

In a hundred years, it isn't going to matter anyway.

 

[itsmoked]

If it is a specific, focused, field you are seeking knowledge in, like PLCs, I find buying a piece of equipment that costs some fraction of the cost of a course and doesn't require large precious chunks of time to get to/from to be more useful. (and you get a new toy!!)

I think in your case... I would look around the WEB automation stores, Ebay, etc. And buy a PLC. Get a compact one that doesn't use a bunch of power. Get one with analog in/out, line voltage digital in/out, and then mess with it.

Run some contraption. I ran my washing machine for over five years with one. I was able to make the cycles just the way I wanted them. I even had a special diaper cycle, better-half loved it.

Anyway, I learned a whole lot.. learning you don't get out of a book.

http://web6.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/PLC_Hardware

https://www.tek-supply.com/econo_comparisions.htm

http://search.ebay.com/PLC_Industri...refZC12QQfromZR8QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ92074

 

[ScottI2R]

ItSmoked,
What you say I ALMOST agree with 104%. EXPERIENCE you don't get out of a book is how I would view it. That is an absolutly EXCELLENT idea. Almost all I have learned about PLC's and programming them has come from OJT. BTW, you can pick up a new Allen Bradley Micrologic PLC for under $400. A little pricey, but NOT compared to the return on your educational gain. Unfortunatly, the S/W is alot more pricey. I'm glad work bought it!

PS: I am NOT affiliated with AB in any way. Just like their products.....

Scott

In a hundred years, it isn't going to matter anyway.

 

[techzone12]

Thank you "ItSmoked" and "scottI2R" for the valuable info. Buying a PLC sounds very appealing. It's certainly the only way for some hands-on experience.

I don't know however which PLC to pick, there are so many of them!. I guess I will be looking for one that is not overly expensive, but yet providing reasonable functionality and accaptable level of flexiblity (is there such a thing!!).

Can you suggest some PLC's that are suitable for mostly educational purposes?. I can look them up on ebay, if I know what I am looking for.

Thanks

 

[techzone12]

Thanks "xnuke" for the valuable links.

 

[xnuke]

techzone12,

You're welcome.

ScottI2R,

I do have a shirt that says "Gone Fission" with a picture of a fishook through an atom. By the way, I'm always looking to update the FAQ, so if you have sites to recommend, please post links.

xnuke
"Do you think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[cyrusr]

Itsmoked,

Which PLC did you purchase?

 

[itsmoked]

Hi cyrusr;

It was a Fuji, similar to their NW0P30. This was a while ago. Those diaper kids are driving now.
It was given to me. I used the Handy Loader.

http://www.fujielectric.com/pdf/LEH984b.pdf

I have also used Allen Bradly's to good effect.

Nearly the first thing out of school I had to spec and design a generator feedwater plant controller that controlled five 1,500 horsepower motors that ran horizontal feedwater pumps for injecting 1000F water at 1200psi
down hole in a San Ardo oil field for secondary reclamation. It also had to control the 25,000 barrel tank that provided the boiler feedwater.

It was their largest PLC. The basic unit did just about nothing. (just provided the smarts)

I had to add a couple digital out units, digital in units, analog out, and analog ins. It cost a little more that $57k just for the PLC. The only way to program it was with Allen Bradly's proprietary terminal.

You will find that all PLCs are VERY similar in their basic functionality otherwise it would be hard for them to break into each other's customer bases.

You haven't stated what you want it for. {washing machine?}

Allen Bradley, GE, Omron, Mitsubishi, Modicon, ABB, Adept Robots, Cognex all make them.
In fact this is a VERY partial list.

You might check out

http://www.mrplc.com/

as it is a hot bed of PLC frenzy there.

Really the key is to find one that lets you program it with a PC/laptop *CHEAPLY* that is the most important aspect. A lot of them will try to charge a bunch for this. But there are others who know this is a barrier and just about give this feature to you.

 

[richs]

Hi-

A friend of mine who deals with PLCs a lot passed this
link to me. It certainly looks cheap enough.

I am in the process of whomping up my own PLC using PIC
microcontrollers, so it isn't too much of an interest to
me.

I have not researched this PLC, however I see nothing wrong
with it to start learning.

Hope that this helps.

http://www.tri-plc.com/e10intro.htm

Cheers,

Rich S.

 

[Skogsgurra]

It is good to see good advice. I have used the Siemens LOGO! (yes the "!" is part of the name) recently. It takes both ladder diagrams and logic diagrams. It has a powerful simulation mode and lots of functionality.

Have a look at it.

 

[techzone12]

Thank you all for the tips. The "tri-plc" link looks very interesting. It looks like I can buy the PLC and the software for ~ $100. I am assuming it comes with a manuall. It would be nice if I can also buy sensors and relays (one stop shopping?), to be able to do actual simple applications/projects.

Thanks to you guys I have a wealth of information now.

 

[skills]

I would add to above that the best plc for you to use is the plc that will perform the task you desire and you are able to master. Someone with much experience can use most anything without much distinction in the final product, assuming that the system has the basics. The features YOU need to accomplish your intended purpose is the only ones that I would pay much for.

For every system out there, there exists a market that won't even consider alternatives. As far as money or pay is concerned. The more rare the system, the less price pressure you have on your work. That would argue for picking something hardly used by most, if you have the prospective clients in mind.

Remember, regarding advancing one's career, that the law of supply and demand will drive down the price on experience that most people have. Just a lil' business insight there.

 

[techzone12]

Thank you for the insight.
Since I first wrote this thread, I have taken some steps. I first asked myself to set a reasonable goal? Some thing short term that I can achieve.
The short answer was to concentrate on learning the Hardware I am working with at the moment. I asked my boss to send me for hardware training (provided by the company I work for).
The training has proved to be some-what disappointing however! To give you and idea,at one instance the instructor went into great length explaining Ohms law. And then he gave us exercises on how to solve for R and I!!. I felt like I was going back to elementary school.

It seems like there is no balance. If you take a course they fill up your head with theory only. If you go for idustrial training on the other hand, they want to teach you how to add and subtract??!

I also grabbed a PLC book that I am reading right now. The other more realistic option would be just to switch from software to hardware within the company, this way I will have the OJT I need?

Thanks again

 

[skills]

Hey, I understand your frustration with the quality of training opportunities available. If you were in Arkansas or Missouri I would suggest a really good training seminar on plc system design and development that is offered by my company. I noticed myself that most of the training I've seen won't enable or prepare you for real system design and development and the examples are crazy. It's a case of the trainer having to assume that the attendees don't understand electrical circuitry, I quess. Still sad, though. Keep pursuing your interest, it'll pay off. Buy, buy, buy and plc if you are really really interested as this will signifigantly shorten the learning process.

 

[stargate3216]

Take a coispondence corse at your local communty collage. There very cheap.

 

[itsmoked]

I won't say anything...