Plumbing Drawing Requirements 1

[PatBethea]

I'm a mechanical PE in FL working on my first plumbing engineering job. The engineering portion wasn't hard - the hardest part was making sure I met the right codes, but I am not sure what is required for presentation. FL statute says to provide:

a. floor plans, site plans, and building and plumbing system elevations
b. isometric diagrams . . .
c. sanitary and storm riser diagrams . . .
d. cold water, hot water, sanitary and storm drainage piping layouts

Will somebody please explain to me the difference between these things? I thought all I would have to do was a simple line diagram noting pipe size and showing some installation details. Apparently not. I feel like an idiot (maybe I am) and I'm too embarrassed to ask the architect who hired me.

 

[MikeHalloran]

A little help, sort of...

An _electrical_ riser diagram, say for a house service, comprises a slightly simplified pictorial (not schematic) elevation, conduits shown as two lines, annotated with conduit sizes, and the number and size of wires therein. I.e., it shows a local elevation and the basis for sizing the components, in enough detail that the plans examiner can check that part of the design for code conformance.

I've seen a few of what I think are plumbing riser diagrams, comprising pipes as two lines, components as outlines, again with enough annotation or detail to help the plans examiner and the construction inspector check the design and as-built stuff for code conformance.

You may find an example in your big thick "... Engineers Handbook". Better to find a set of stamped plans for something vaguely similar to your project, or for any project approved in your vicinity, and study the plumbing sheets.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[PEDARRIN2]

Maybe a little simplistic response but it works.

1 Typically, floor plans and layouts (a and d) are the building plans which shows the rooms, walls, etc. of the building. Elevations are typically the finished floor elevations and/or the pipe invert elevations.

2. Isometric diagrams are typically single line sanitary and vent piping diagrams that show how all the piping connects. Sometimes it is difficult to show all the connections on the floor plans so the isometrics help the inspector see how the piping connects to determine if it meets code.

3. Riser diagrams are typically single line and show how the piping connects from floor to floor. They are similar to the isometrics but include the storm, hot and cold water. They are typically included when you have a multistorey building or have plumbing fixture groups that are stacked vertically in the building i.e. a hotel where the rooms are typically identical floor to floor.

Hope that helps.

 

[dtn6770]

Not knocking your PE status but I'm curious as to why your client didn't (have to) hire a FL licensed plumber? Most, if not, all states' engineering laws make it a no-no to practice outside your dicipline/field. There is no question of your abilities but since you're a PE and it sounds like your workign in unfamiliar territory without a safety net, please recognize your vulnerability even if you do a stellar job.

Okay off soapbox...The only usefull advice from me would be to get your hand on a previous jobs documents. Perhaps ask your client if he/she has a preferential format and examples to go by. Can you get a peek at drawings on file with the local authorities? I'm suprised the statue doesn't offer examples.

I know, I'm worthless...Sorry.

 

[PatBethea]

Thank you all.

I am in unfamiliar territory - the criticism is valid. An architect acquaintance of my wife's asked if I'd be interested in the job. Extra money for Christmas, you know? This is the way I figured it - a plumbing job is a simple (or a series of simple) fluids flow problem. I knew I could do the engineering part. I figured the FL Building Code would point me to any/all standards and codes that I needed to abide by. So far no problem. Then I got to the drawing requirements. I haven't been able to find any examples. I never considered going to the city's building/planning dept and asking to see a simliar job.

If I understand correctly - show a simple layout on a floorplan as I was originally going to do. In addition I provide a 3-D isometric. I'm still not sure of the difference between an isometric and a riser diagram, though - just a different term for the wastewater and supply water lines?

 

[PEDARRIN2]

You are correct that typically the waste piping is shown on an isometric and the supply piping is shown on a riser diagram.

However, sometimes, I have put riser diagrams on the isometric when there are a lot of typical or similar configurations. It saves on the drawing space and time to do the drawings.

 

[PatBethea]

I took the given advice and got a set of plumbing drawings that were on file with the city. The engineer that had drawn them had a page for sanitary lines and a page for domestic water. He had a layout and a riser diagram on each page. The riser diagrams are single line representations, with the fixture designation on the end of piping runs. I've got to say that it doesn't look like very useful information - nothing represented there that I couldn't figure out from the layout, but if the law says do it, I'll do it. Maybe they're only really useful on multi-story buildings?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[stanlsimon]

If you are really serious about doing this kind of thing I suggest you get a book about plumbing such as "Plumbing is an Engineered Science" by Dr. Alfred Steele. Some of your comments indicate that you don't know what you don't know. Thanks for being honest.
You should try to get your plans reviewed by someone like a master plumber or engineer truly familiar with plumbing who can point out problems that could be disastrous later on.

 

[beercia]

Piping and plumbing design is based mostly on rules of thumb and careful analysis of the system operating conditions (pressure, flow). A good starting point is reviewing old drawings but that is not the answer to all the questions that you may have. Good piping design usually comes after some years of making mistakes on your own unless, of course, you have a mentor that can help you with your questions and your first piping designs to avoid costly design mistakes, typical of rookies. I advice you to go to the forum at this site:

http://pipingdesigners.com

where they are very helpful and there is plenty of information on piping design and technical information on how to design piping systems.

Carlos