Points or electronic ignition?

[PEW]

I have a question, more out of personal curiosity than anything.

Does anyone here still prefer to use "old fashioned" mechanical points ignition, or has everyone gone over to electronics these days, even for old engines that were designed for points. If any strong views, please put them forward (I know you will).

Thanks.

 

[GregLocock]

My Toyota's 23 year old electronic ignition system has needed NO work on it (other than a couple of sets of new spark plugs) in the 12 years I've owned it. Oh, sorry, I think I bought a new distributor cap, can't remember why.

So yeah, I'd be real keen to go back to a contact breaker.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[wwest]

It is no longer just a matter of ignition breaker "points", many vehicles have now moved on to direct ignition, an ignition coil for each of two cylinders and in some cases a coil/cylinder.

Can you imagine eight sets of breaker points to run a modern V8 with a coil/cylinder..??

But no, I have no desire to go back to a practice of replacing the ignition points every so often nor having to adjust them again and again as the rubbing block wears.

 

[Lou Scannon]

No technical/performance reasons come to mind.
Nostalgia or restoration "correctness" probably top the list.
Next on the list (of reasons to not run points) would be cost (i.e. over the lifetime) or availability of converting to electronic ignition.
After that would be (arguably comprehended by "nostalgia" above) enjoyment/satisfaction of replacing & adjusting points. There's probably other reasons but above are the ones that I have first hand experience with.

 

[patprimmer]

I am not planning on changing the magneto on my 1912 model "Little Giant"

Electronic ignition would not look the part.

I will probably soon convert my classic ski boat with early 70's 350 Chev to an MSD and hall effect trigger so as to avoid maintenance and maintain stable consistent timing.

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[NickE]

For my daily driver I would never go back to OBDI let alone all the way back to points.

For my 1970 Triumph T100C, I would never go to the electronic ignitions that are available, for the reasons Hemi indicated.

Nick
I love materials science!

 

[SomptingGuy]

My daily drive is optimal. It is new enough for electronic ignition and fuel injection, but not new enough to need a cat. So it's set up just how it wants to be. RWD too, so the cam belt changes don't take half a day. I could almost fix it myself.

 

[PEW]

So only Greg would go back to filing his lumpy old points then! ;-)

It's a topic close to my heart, my "fun" car is a four cylinder inline 850 cc, with timing chain, carburettor, rear wheel drive and off-road tyres on the back wheels.

The engine was designed for a Lucas 45D4 with points. About five years ago I got tired of new OE Lucas condensers failing after very few miles and blackening the points.

I fitted an Aldon Ignitor instead (same as Pertronix from the USA) and have never looked back. The only slight worry about the use of this type of ignition is a possible reliability issue; if it fails, it's dead and the relatively high cost means not many are prepared to buy a second set as a reserve. I have carried a set of points in the car as a backup - not that I'd like to convert it back at the roadside on a dark and rainy night!

The beauty of this unit is that there is no external black box; the distributor is externally unchanged and the two leads go straight on the coil.

I've just found a supplier of a similar trigger module which comes complete with a rotor arm combined with the magnetic collar "switch" all in one lump, rather than using a separate collar with the original rotor arm.

Rather than the £70 ($150) or so for an Aldon, it cost just £10 sterling, or about $22! I've bought two; at this ridiculously cheap price I can certainly afford to keep the second unit in the car's spares bag.

I fitted one today. The actual unit and materials look to be good and solid. The road test just carried shows it is at least as good as the Aldon Igniter, which I can probably sell on and get my money back.

I'm hoping never to fit a set of points to a car ever again.

Old mechanical stuff is fine, but modern electronics are great.

 

[FoMoCoMoFo]

I'm a caveman. no vehicle newer than 74, I tend to go backwards I have cars I've changed from auto to manual trans,power to man. steering, hydraulic to mechanical cam. one exception. they all came new with points, they all now have electronic ign.

 

[GregLocock]

PEW

I thought it was merkins who didn't get irony?



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[Warpspeed]

If I had the choice between points and a fully electronic system, I would go electronic every time without hesitation.

The only conceivable exception to that might be some sort of historic vehicle, where the frequent maintenance and tinkering around is all part of the joy of owning such a vehicle.

 

[swall]

I used to worry about the reliability of automotive electronics when we first started down that path. But a 4 year stint in anti-lock cured me of that. All of the failures we had were hardware--hoses, pumps, accumulators,actuators, solenoids. Never had an ECU failure.

 

[PEW]

Oh, Greg, I got the irony, thanks, I got it!

Thanks for your input! Paul Wheatley

 

[sreid]

With high RPM race engines years ago, we picked up 5% HP going from points to electronic ignition. I'm told that high voltage and multi spark adds a bit more HP. The reason would appear to be that there are no (or very few) mis-fires.

I now also associate electronic ignitions with electronic spark advance curves.

 

[RossABQ]

I have two vintage engines; a '52 Ford Flathead V8 and a '69 Triumph Bonneville.

I went with electronic ignition (concurrent with 12v conversion) because the distributor itself is a POS; the old Load-A-Matic vacuum-advance-only kind. I ran 6v with points for a while, but the issue there is the condensers made for 6v systems are total junk, and typically fail in less than 100 miles. I ran it as 12v with points pretty much without problems, but wanted both centrifugal advance and vacuum advance, so I bought an MSD distributor that uses essentially GM HEI components (reluctor wheel). I would never use a Unilite or Pertronix system, if I had a failure on the road it would be weeks before I could get new parts. With the MSD every Auto Zone or NAPA has the parts, and the HEI components are very rugged to begin with.

On the Triumph, it's pretty much the same story. The distributor itself is the problem. The centrifugal advance unit hangs up and won't return all the way once the engine is hot. So I am installing a Boyer system that has no moving parts. I'd rather it used an OEM reluctor wheel, but "oh well..."

 

[70AARCUDA]

...pardon the analogy, but this sounds like a VACUUM TUBE versus SEMICONDUCTOR comparison, ie: FOSSIL vs. FUTURE.

 

[RossABQ]

You might think so, but consider that where I ride/drive recreationally (New Mexico), it is entirely conceivable that I could be 150 miles from even a NAPA store. I can carry an extra set of points in my shirt pocket, at a cost of maybe $10. What do you do if you have a proprietary module like Pertronix? They are about $90 and up, and if it blows once, what's to say it won't blow again, 5 minutes after installing the spare?

Needless to say I won't be riding the Triumph into the hinterlands with a Boyer ignition. But I do have my old flathead distributor stashed under the seat...

 

[sreid]

There is the old "Throw the old points and condenser in the glove box so you'll have a known working spares when needed."

 

[Warpspeed]

I cannot see how replacing a reluctor ignition module is any more difficult than replacing a set of points.

It may cost more, but it is no larger or difficult to replace if stuck on the side of the road.

 

[MikeHalloran]

The last ignition failure I had was a GM reluctor coil that opened up. The engine just stopped... right in front of the house. The week before, I had taken a trip across the Everglades, where NAPA stores are not handy.

Even if I'd had a spare, it wouldn't have been fun to replace roadside. The shaft had to be removed to get the coil out, and it had to be soaked in solvent to get the varnish off before the shaft would pass through the upper bearing.

I don't miss that kind of stuff... and I pay for AAA Premium Service so I can get towed more than a few miles without a hassle.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA