Possible Job Opportunity - questions

[flukeynub]

Hello all, I'm a recent ME grad looking for some advice from those of you with experience. I have been working at a semiconductor company for just over a year now in an operations & maitenance role.

My main concern is my role's ability (or lack thereof) to help me increase my engineering skills. To put it mildly, I do not have an experienced mechanical engineer mentor and my learning consists of only self-study of handbooks and materials for training courses that other employees attended.

Now, one of our mechanical contractor site managers has been trying to recruit me for a project management role with his company.

This company does have licensed PE mechanical engineers which is another draw for me. Bottom line is I want to improve my skills without getting stuck in a dead end job.

Does anyone have some general thoughts or words of wisdom?

 

[TheTick]

Improving your skills won't help a lick if you don't get over the need to have people tell you what you should want.

 

[xnuke]

Project management is not engineering, so how do you think that kind of job will improve your engineering skills? It sounds like you want to be a design engineer rather than an O&M engineer. Try to find a job at a consulting engineering firm if that's the case.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[RDK]

xnuke

Under the legal definition of engineering used in Canada, management of an engineering function is the practice of professional engineering.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[flukeynub]

TheTick, I am not asking for someone to tell me what to do. Please don't be the senior engineer that complains when younger engineers are ASKING for your opinions and experience. If you must have such a negative attitude, DON'T respond.

I think I would agree project management is not engineering, but my current role is not engineering either. Either way my current position is not long term since it is neither engineering or PM. Really I'm wondering what others have experienced when met with the engineering vs project management question.

 

[msquared48]

flukeynub:

As for the response by Tick, it WAS his opinion of the situation you asked for from his perspective, and it related to your ability to manage.

Having been a manager for years, I totally understand that managers ask for input to make decisions, but they also have to make those decisions, sometines without the benefit of that input. Just step back, take the criticism, and see if it applies to your situation. Don't be offended here. If you are, how will you ever be a good manager who listens to criticism, good or otherwise?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[MintJulep]

Operations and maintenance gives you the opportunity to see how equipment works, how it fails and how to improve it so it doesn't fail.

Plenty of valuable engineering skills there.

 

[TheTick]

Apologies. My attitude was in part because I misread your initial post.

Still, seems like an easy choice: move from a wasteland without mentorship to a position where one will (likely) have mentorship and networking opportunities. Get out of the dungeon.

 

[flukeynub]

MintJulep, I completely agree there is a lot to learn. The best part of my job is that my supervisor is a very competent & experienced I&C engineer and is willing to answer any questions I have about I&C. This is great information to learn for my career, I just want to make sure my core competency is ME or PM.

TheTick - I can see now why you might have thought that way. My first post cold easily be misconstrued into something I was not intending. I will need to work on that one.

 

[spongebob007]

My general advice for new grads is not to fall in love with your first job. A year or two of experience is all you really need. How do you know what you really want to be when you grow up if you don't go out and try it. Every job I have held has many similarities, but a big company is not a small company is not a medium sized company. The defense industry is different than private industry. A consulting firm is different than a manufacturing company. Each different place will have its benefits and drawbacks. With the business culture as it is in America today gone are the days of spending 20 or 30 years at one company and folks with several jobs on their resume are not looked down on as they once were. I think this is especially true if you did most of your job hopping early on in your career. I feel that you can broaden your experience base faster by having say two or three different jobs in your first five years out of school than you will staying at the same place for five years. It is also my experience that by changing jobs you will experience a jump in both salary and responsibility/tasks that is bigger than if you stay with the same organization.

 

[IRstuff]

I'll second s_bob's comments. I diverted away from a particular discipline early in my career because I thought I was going to be doing something else for the rest of my career. Oddly, that fell through, and I wound up in the very discipline I was avoiding, and have been there ever since.

During freshman orientation, we sat in a circle around a fire on the beach, and our guide said, "Look to your right, look to your left, one of the 3 of your will not graduate with his class." The same applies to jobs. You should expect to have had 6 jobs or so by the time you retire. The odds are seriously against staying at the same company for your entire career; outsourcing, insourcing, layoffs, transfers, etc. all conspire to change your business card.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[fast4door]

flukeynub, I feel a good mentor is critical at all stages of your career. Even Tiger Woods has a coach. (Okay, maybe substitue Phil?) As a first thought, consider developing one outside of your job.

As a second thought, don't waste your time at a job where you aren't learning.

Third thought: if you're going to leave for a vendor, consider the politics. Your current company may get so upset they won't do any more business with that company.

 

[ornerynorsk]

There is always volunteering at your local uni, the best way to learn is when you are teaching someone else, they say. Mentorship could be one of the profs. Even though there may be no pay involved, it will keep you from getting rusty, and the networking may lead to something else. It's always good to stay in the mix, people-wise.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[kylesito]

I also agree with Bob and fastdoor...

But will add the best thing a young engineer can do is get active in societies or professional groups. Building a strong network through these groups can provide you with many mentors and learning experiences that far exceed just those you can learn with your company.

In my experience, it wasn't until I had become active in these groups that I found the right kind of mentorship that would help me develop in my first few years after school.

Good luck



PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[lacajun]

Leaving after a year will not look good on your resumé to some. I made some internal moves after a couple of years in each job that were frowned upon. That kind of thing comes across to others as though you have a problem to some.

There is a lot to learn in O&M. So, if you do leave, you'll need to understand the situation and yourself completely to satisfactorily explain it to future interviewers. If you aren't learning a lot, perhaps you need to ask for broader responsibilities.

Poaching employees has always been frowned upon in my experience. Even an employee approaching another company involved in business with your employer is frowned upon by some. Your company paid money to recruit you and probably hasn't seen the return on that investment yet. The contractor is poaching on that effort and expense. You'll also need to explain how your first move came about for subsequent potential employers. Will that look good or bad to them?

Have you discussed future plans with management? They may have plans you are unaware of, e.g., hiring some ME's with experience.

I've been criticized for leaving Marathon Petroleum for Micro Motion. I usually say MMI gave me an offer I couldn't refuse, which signaled to them that I move for money. While that is a motivator, I had it good with Marathon. I've had to explain exactly why I moved and that it wasn't all about money.

Just food for thought...

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[srijey]

Wisdom does not speak here! You've just two options - need money or need fun - fun means to love the job. It's difficult to set both as a goal. Once you get one, pretend that the other one is available - or get used to it. If you do not like the current job, look for the other, do not lose heart, world is big enough to accommodate you. 2012 is one way an opportunity year. My feeling is this way - attempt to love (maintain good relationship) the colleagues and the people whom you work with - tasks are just for money and most of the time, it's easy to learn. Peoiple are your real assets to support you. Most of the time opportunities strike from those people, call them peers or friends. Short answer: If you do not like the job, PLAN to quit.