Power to turn a horizontal cylinder

[rory pringle]

Trying to work out geared electric motor required for turning a rotary drier:
18 m 1.1m diameter pipe weighing 4 tons lying horizontally on frictionless bearings.
Weight of material being turned is 500kg wood shavings.
Pipe has a chain driven ring gear outside diameter 1.2 and 83 tooth chain drive.
Rotational speed variable 2 cycles per minute to 6 cycles per minute
Drive sprocket 30 tooth.
Can someone help?

 

[mfgenggear]

Please make a rough sketch. With all units with correct data.
Goal or objectove
what is the torque required and rom from motor.

What is the requirements output of gear box.
Input torque and rpm into chain drive
What is yhe rpm of the pipe and torque required to rotate

 

[3DDave]

Consider the problem as one of continuously pumping 500 kg of material about 0.5 meters up at whatever rate. The chips won't get much above the centerline of the pipe before sliding.

Power = weight * height / time. The weight is 500kg * 9.81 m/sec^2 = whatever Newtons, the height is 0.5 meters, and the time is whatever a 1/4 turn of the pipe takes.

2 cycles per minute is 1 cycle in 30 seconds, so 1/4th of that is about 8 seconds.

Or you can just go with a 10-15 Hp motor and realize that if it is over-sized, there is a lot of inertia to overcome at startup and you don't want to pop a breaker getting the thing running from a standstill.

I'm too lazy to try to back-drive what the wall thickness of the cylinder is from the OD and the mass; without that I don't know what the inertia is and therefore what a reasonable torque to get it up to speed fast enough not to cause an electrical failure. I guess it could be like a thin shell at 0.55 m Radius, so mass * radius^2? But then I need to know how long the motor can stand being at too low an RPM for continuous operation.

I think the 300% range on speed is the larger problem but I don't do anything with VFD (variable frequency drive) and electric motor calcs so I cannot recommend one.

I do recall that a lot of the time these things are driven with a hydraulic motor and pump. A variable displacement pump can easily manage the speed range and won't be bothered by the initial starting torque as long as the motor can handle it. The electric motor to drive the pump can be much smaller; it only needs to be large enough for the hydraulic losses and to operate at the desired wood chip turning speed. It will take whatever time it takes to get up to speed; shortening the time means a bigger electric pump motor and a higher allowable pressure setting on the variable displacement pump.

 

[mfgenggear]

Op
Waiting for sketch, Dave pointed out good advice. I don't memorize formulas, I just google them.


+2
To calculate torque and RPM from weight capacity, you need to first convert the weight into a force, then use the formula for torque (τ = F * r) where "F" is the force (weight) and "r" is the radius of the lifting mechanism (lever arm), which will give you the torque required to lift the weight; RPM is not directly obtainable from weight capacity alone, and you'd need additional information like the motor's power or the desired lifting speed to calculate it.
Key points to remember:
Force calculation: Convert the weight capacity (in pounds or kilograms) to force by multiplying it by the acceleration due to gravity (9.8 m/s² or 32.2 ft/s²).
Torque formula: Torque (τ) = Force (F) * Radius (r).
RPM and weight: Weight capacity alone cannot directly give you RPM; you need to consider the motor's power or the desired lifting speed to calculate RPM.
Example calculation:
Problem:
A lifting mechanism has a weight capacity of 100 pounds and a lever arm of 2 feet. Calculate the required torque.
Steps:
Convert weight to force: Force = Weight * Gravity = 100 lbs * 32.2 ft/s² = 3220 lb-ft/s²
Calculate torque: Torque = Force * Radius = 3220 lb-ft/s² * 2 ft = 6440 lb-ft.
Important considerations:
Lever arm length: The length of the lever arm significantly affects the required torque.
Efficiency: The calculation assumes 100% efficiency, which is not always the case in real applications.
Motor selection: When designing a system, you need to choose a motor with sufficient torque and RPM to handle the desired weight capacity and lifting speed.
Motor Sizing Basics Part 1: How to Calculate Load Torque
Jan 14, 2020 — To calculate load torque, multiply the force (F) by the distance away from the rotational axis, which is the radius of the pulley (r). If the mass o...

Engineering Notes by Oriental Motor
RPM and Torque in Engines: Understanding the Relationship
May 10, 2023 — By knowing the torque required by the load and the torque output of the engine, we can estimate the RPM at which the engine will operate under the l...

LinkedIn
Horsepower vs. Torque: What's the Difference? - Car and Driver
Apr 15, 2016 — In other words, power is the rate of completing work (or applying torque) in a given amount of time. Mathematically, horsepower equals torque multip...

Car and Driver
How do you calculate the torque required to lift a load with a robot?
Feb 20, 2024 — The torque formula varies depending on the type of joint, but the general form is: torque = load weight x arm length x sin(joint angle) This formula...

LinkedIn
How to Calculate Torque | Physics - Study.com
Formula for Torque: The formula for calculating torque is τ = | r | | F | sin ⁡ , where is the magnitude of the lever arm, is the magnitude of the force vector,

Study.com
Generative AI is experimental. Learn more
Videos

1:04
CALCULATE TORQUE For Electric Motors! The BASIC TORQUE FORMULA ...
YouTube · Torpey Denver
Feb 2, 2019

10:17
How to Calculate Torque for a Motor
YouTube · Joe Robinson Training
May 18, 2020
This motor is producing a torque of naught point naught for three Newton meters so that's what we're looking at there.

2:57
Easily Calculate Engine Torque: Easy to understand Math Behind the ...
YouTube · TheRepairSpecialist
May 10, 2023
To work out the engine torque we simply multiply the horsepower of the engine by the 5252.
Feedback
People also ask
How to calculate torque from weight?
How to calculate torque from RPM and weight?
How do you calculate torque to lift a weight?
How do you calculate torque at full load?
Feedback

Arduino Forum
https://forum.arduino.cc › how-to-d...
How to determine the maximum weight the a motor can drive - Project Guidance
Sep 20, 2016 — Multiply the torque of the motor time the ratio of gear or belt reduction to drive the wheel axle, then divide by the radius of the wheel. Can ...

Reddit · r/askmath
3 comments · 1 year ago
How could I determine the speed of a motor with a weight attached to it?
If I had a motor that can do 60 rpm (with no load) with a peak torque of 30kg at 12v. If I wanted to apply a weight on the end, let’s say a 2 kg beam ...
Missing: capacity ‎| Show results with: capacity
Classical mechanics problem. Rotational equation of motion would help you. Also the units of ...
More
Top answer · 3 votes
If I had a motor that can do 60 rpm (with no load) You can't infer the speed under load from ...
More
2 votes

NEPSI
https://nepsi.com › calculators › m...
Motor Torque Calculations
The following calculators compute the various torque aspects of motors. These equations are for estimation only, friction, windage, and other factors are not ...

Engineering Stack Exchange
https://engineering.stackexchange.com › ...
Torque and RPM calc
Jul 25, 2019 — started by designing the gear meshing, and now I need to calculate some parameters to determinate if this meshing works for me. The system considers ...
The transmission ratio is related to the number of teeth on the worm gear, and the number of ...
More
2 votes
The gear ratio is the slope of worm gear per teeth of the round gear, so if one rotation of ...
More
1 vote
People also search for
How to calculate motor torque from RPM
How to calculate how much weight a motor can lift
How to calculate torque of DC motor from RPM
How to calculate torque of motor from power
Motor torque calculator
DC motor torque calculator

Oriental Motor
https://blog.orientalmotor.com › m...
Motor Sizing Basics Part 1: How to Calculate Load Torque
Jan 14, 2020 — To calculate load torque, multiply the force (F) by the distance away from the rotational axis, which is the radius of the pulley (r).

Spicer Parts
https://spicerparts.com › calculators
Horsepower and Torque Calculator
This calculator will measure the approximate horsepower of an engine based on the torque of the engine (measured in foot-pounds) multiplied by the RPM of the ...

Power Test Dynamometer
https://powertestdyno.com › how-t...
How to Calculate Horsepower - Power Test, LLC
Mar 17, 2020 — The equation to calculate horsepower is simple: Horsepower = Torque x RPM / 5,252. You can use our horsepower calculator below to try it out ...

Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange
https://electronics.stackexchange.com › ...
Calculating the torque and RPM requirements for a DC motor
May 27, 2023 — Say I'd like to calculate the motor specs required for lifting a 1kg weight at a rate of 1 m/s. How much torque and RPM should the motor have, assuming ...
Missing: capacity ‎| Show results with: capacity
Technically, the torque you require is determined by the weight of your load AND the time you are willing to wait for it to accelerate up to speed. ...
More
Top answer · 3 votes
How to calculate torque of the motor? - Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange
Nov 4, 2020
How to calculate the weight my DC motor can move?
Mar 5, 2017

Physics Forums
https://www.physicsforums.com › ...
How do you calculate the amount of torque you need to pull an object?
Mar 1, 2013 — To calculate the torque, you can use the formula T = (m x g x d) + F x d, where m is the mass of the object, g is the acceleration due to ...
Gear train torque / power and load? - Physics Forums
Oct 26, 2013
·
5 posts
Calculating torque without power - Physics Forums
Dec 17, 2015
·
7 posts
How to Calculate Power and Torque for a 15kg Load at 15 RPM?
Jun 5, 2022
·
8 posts
Calc Torque Req for Rotating 35lbs @ 25RPM - Physics Forums
May 30, 2023
·
8 posts
People also search for
Motor torque calculation PDF
3 phase motor torque calculator
86401, Arizona - From your device
Update location
Terms
AI overview is ready

 

[rory pringle]

W

Consider the problem as one of continuously pumping 500 kg of material about 0.5 meters up at whatever rate. The chips won't get much above the centerline of the pipe before sliding.

Power = weight * height / time. The weight is 500kg * 9.81 m/sec^2 = whatever Newtons, the height is 0.5 meters, and the time is whatever a 1/4 turn of the pipe takes.

2 cycles per minute is 1 cycle in 30 seconds, so 1/4th of that is about 8 seconds.

Or you can just go with a 10-15 Hp motor and realize that if it is over-sized, there is a lot of inertia to overcome at startup and you don't want to pop a breaker getting the thing running from a standstill.

I'm too lazy to try to back-drive what the wall thickness of the cylinder is from the OD and the mass; without that I don't know what the inertia is and therefore what a reasonable torque to get it up to speed fast enough not to cause an electrical failure. I guess it could be like a thin shell at 0.55 m Radius, so mass * radius^2? But then I need to know how long the motor can stand being at too low an RPM for continuous operation.

I think the 300% range on speed is the larger problem but I don't do anything with VFD (variable frequency drive) and electric motor calcs so I cannot recommend one.

I do recall that a lot of the time these things are driven with a hydraulic motor and pump. A variable displacement pump can easily manage the speed range and won't be bothered by the initial starting torque as long as the motor can handle it. The electric motor to drive the pump can be much smaller; it only needs to be large enough for the hydraulic losses and to operate at the desired wood chip turning speed. It will take whatever time it takes to get up to speed; shortening the time means a bigger electric pump motor and a higher allowable pressure setting on the variable displacement pump.

Wow Thanks guys. What a great help so far. I will get back on this shortly

 

[dvd]

This paper deals with a somewhat similar analysis. There are several references listed that may be relevant, also. Good luck.

 

[mfgenggear]

Here's a perfect a perfect example

To calculate the power required to turn a steel drum with a chain drive geared motor, you need to consider factors like the drum's weight, diameter, desired rotational speed, friction coefficient, chain efficiency, and gear ratio, and then use the formula: Power = (Torque * Rotational Speed) / Efficiency; where torque is calculated based on the drum's weight and radius, and rotational speed is the desired drum rotation in revolutions per minute (RPM).
Key steps to calculate the power:
Determine the load torque:
Calculate the drum's weight (W) in Newtons.
Find the drum's radius (r) in meters.
Load torque (T) = W * r * friction coefficient (µ).
Calculate the required torque at the motor shaft:
Gear ratio (GR) = number of teeth on the motor gear / number of teeth on the drum gear.
Motor torque (Tm) = Load torque / Gear ratio
Calculate the rotational speed at the motor shaft:
Desired drum speed (RPM) / Gear ratio
Calculate the power required:
Power (P) = (Motor torque * Motor rotational speed) / Efficiency (of the whole system, including chain and gears)
Important considerations:
Friction coefficient:
The friction coefficient depends on the materials in contact (drum surface, chain, etc.) and can vary significantly.
Chain efficiency:
Chain drives experience some power loss due to friction, so factor in the chain efficiency when calculating overall system efficiency.
Motor selection:
Choose a motor with a torque rating greater than or equal to the calculated motor torque and a suitable power rating to handle the required load.
Example:
A 100kg steel drum with a 0.5m radius needs to rotate at 10 RPM.
Assume a friction coefficient of 0.2, a gear ratio of 10:1, and a system efficiency of 80%.
Calculation:
Load torque = (100kg * 9.81 m/s² * 0.5m) * 0.2 = 98.1 Nm
Motor torque = 98.1 Nm / 10 = 9.81 Nm
Motor rotational speed = 10 RPM / 10 = 1 RPM
Power required = (9.81 Nm * 1 RPM) / 0.8 = 12.26 W
Standard Series Drum Motors | Van der Graaf
The electric motor is in-line to the gear reducer and operates at 96% mechanical efficiency, reducing energy consumption and operating costs. ... Standard Serie...

Van der Graaf Drum Motors
Drum motor - Wikipedia
Because of the in-line transmission arrangement using 2 or 3 stage helical or planetary gears, up to 95% of the output power produced by the motor is typically ...

Wikipedia
Motor Selection Basics: Inertia and Power and Torque Requirements
Feb 16, 2023 — This means that the power needed to accelerate the system as a whole can be found by using this equation: P = (IM+IL) x α x ω (Equation 1). This pow...
Portescap
Gear - Energy Education
How they work. Gears use the principle of mechanical advantage, which is the ratio of output force to input force in a system. For gears, the mechanical advanta...

Energy Education
What is a DC Gear Motor - Mechtex
DC gear motors are used in robotics systems for driving robotic arms, grippers, and other equipment that require precise speed control. They are also used in au...
Mechtex
Generative AI is experimental. Learn more

Physics Forums
https://www.physicsforums.com › ...
Most efficient way to rotate a cylinder using a motor?
Dec 30, 2015 — With an angular velocity of 5 rpm (.52 rad/s), the power would be approximately 250 Watts. I was just wondering why you suggested a motor with ...
Torque & Motor H.P Required for Drum Rotation of 3T Weight - Physics Forums
Dec 18, 2009
·
4 posts
How Much Torque and Horsepower Are Needed to Rotate a Steel Drum?
Dec 30, 2011
·
2 posts
Motor needed to turn a Drum.... - Physics Forums
Mar 15, 2016
·
11 posts
Completely stuck - Attempting to construct a trommel - Physics Forums
Nov 13, 2019
·
21 posts

Quora
https://www.quora.com › What-ho...
What horsepower of an electric motor can effectively rotate a drum of 200 kg?
What horsepower of an electric motor can effectively rotate a drum of 200 kg?
To determine the horsepower of an electric motor needed to effectively rotate a drum of 200 ...
More
Meaningless- cannot be answered, First you have to overcome static friction. Then speed ...
More
3 votes
Put it in space and you could rotate it with 1 erg per second. That’s about one 7.5 billionth ...
More
1 vote
500 hp will effectively rotate a drum of 200 kg rapidly. If you need a slower rotation use ...
More
0 votes
Regardless of engine or motor type, electric or otherwise, the relationship between torque ...
More
2 votes
View all posts
How to calculate motor power to lift 150 kg - Quora
Jan 11, 2017
·
9 answers
How powerful of an electric motor do I need to power a 400 lb + 180 lb person ...
Oct 27, 2019
·
2 answers
Is it possible to make an electric motor that can lift up 1 ton of weight ... - Quora
May 18, 2020
·
5 answers
Can I make an electric bicycle with a 1/2 HP 50 watts 6000 RPM sewing machine ...
Jan 23, 2017
·
1 answer
People also ask
How to calculate power required for a motor?
How to calculate how much a motor can lift?
What is a drum motor drive?
How to calculate motor power rating?
Feedback

Reddit · r/MechanicalEngineering
10+ comments · 1 year ago
How much power/torque do I need to make my drum turn? : r/MechanicalEngineering
I need to make a 1.5m diameter 2m length drum rotate without any load on it. The surface of the drum is a steel sheet 10mm thickness rolled and welded ...
Missing: chain ‎drive
The manufacturer of the end bearings you're using will have some calcs or tables for frictional ...
More
Top answer · 5 votes
You need to know or estimate static and dynamic coefficients of friction for the bearings. ...
More
2 votes
Small motor with high torque : r/engineering
Aug 22, 2021
Chain Drive or Direct Drive? : r/Drumming
Feb 1, 2024

Food Engineering
https://www.foodengineeringmag.com › ...
White paper: The evolution of the drum motor | 2019-12-02
Dec 2, 2019 — Drum motors are more efficient than external mounted belt drives, resulting in lower energy consumption without any sacrifice in torque and ...
Missing: turn ‎| Show results with: turn

Van der Graaf Drum Motors
https://www.vandergraaf.com › dr...
Standard Series Drum Motors
Standard Series Drum Motors are available from 4-inch to 12.5-inch diameter 0.11 HP to 15 HP, with a wide range of belt speeds and lagging to suit various belt ...
Missing: turn ‎| Show results with: turn

Interroll Group
https://www.interroll.com › ...PDF
User Manual Interroll Drum Motor

It is available in different power stages and for most of the international supply voltages. Drum motors of the S-DC series are driven by a 24-V DC brush motor.
56 pages·870 KB

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › D...
Drum motor



A drum motor (or motorised pulley) is a geared motor drive enclosed within a steel shell providing a single component driving pulley for conveyor belts.
Missing: chain ‎| Show results with: chain
Images
White paper: The evolution of the drum motor | 2019-12-02 ...
White paper: The evolution of the drum motor | 2019-12-02 ...

Food Engineering
Most Efficient Electricity Generating Stationary Bike (with ...
Most Efficient Electricity Generating Stationary Bike (with ...

Instructables
Chain Drive or Direct Drive? : r/Drumming
Chain Drive or Direct Drive? : r/Drumming

Reddit
Most Efficient Electricity Generating Stationary Bike (with ...
Most Efficient Electricity Generating Stationary Bike (with ...

Instructables

iwis
https://www.iwis.com › iwis...PDF
Handbook for chain engineering Design and construction / Examples of calculation

drives in highspeed Diesel engines have been particularly success- ful ... Power output of geared motor P = 0,96 kW. Driving speed n1. = 20 min-1. Speed ...
88 pages·7 MB

WEG
https://static.weg.net › mediasPDF
SPECIFICATION GUIDE ELECTRIC MOTORS

1.2.1 Torque. Torque, also known as moment of force, is the measure of the energy required to rotate a shaft. Through practical.