PQR FOR HIGH PRESSURE PIPING AISI 4130 ; ASTM A 487 Gr 4D & ASTM A487-4Q

[WE17]

Dear All,
I need to prepare PQR for high pressure piping B31.3 and refer to welding ASME IX ,
1. AISI 4130 welded to ASTM A487-4Q
2. ASTM A487 Gr 4D to ASTM A487-4Q
3. ASTM A487 Gr 4D to API 5L X52

By seeing all mill certificate, ASME SEC IIA, I thought A487 Gr 4D(unassigned material) & A487 4Q old designation (unassigned material) because not listed in ASME sec IX QW/QB 422. but after check deeply(ASME sec IIA) it put in table 3, Previous designation 4Q, Grade 4 B/C/D. and chemical composition table 2 Grade 4 ABCDE. so I made decision to PUT it same with SA 487 Gr 4 cl B (P no 11a/G3), so my question are :

1. Am I correc to said ASTM A487 4Q and ASTM A487 4D are part of SA 487 Gr 4 Cl B so i can justified that it 's Pn no 11A/G3 ?
2. because that material is fitting so I want to use SA 333 uns(K81340) P11A/G1 for my PQR since P no essential but Group no suplementary essential ( btw no impact on this project)
3. Am I need to perform PWHT for this ?
Please kindly give an advice ?

sowry about my english
Thnx n Regrd's

we17

 

[gtaw]

Since the decision has been made that the system is "high pressure" there are additional requirements imposed on the basic requirements of ASME Section IX.

the basic requirements of Section IX delineates the method of qualifying the WPS. However, B31.3 for High Pressure Fluid Service imposes additional requirements and restrictions on the range of base metal that are qualified, the need for notch toughness testing, post weld heat treatment, the use of backing, the use of integrally reinforced branch fitting (weld-o-lets), how the welders are qualified, etc.

Basically, a WPS must be qualified for each combination of base metal specifications that will be welded in production. This is much more restrictive than one would deduce rom reading Section IX. Joint details are also more restrictive than indicated by Section IX. Welders must be qualified by guided bend tests, i.e., RT is not permitted for evaluating the performance coupon.

Since B31.3 is so restrictive on the range of base metals that can be welded once the WPS is qualified, the fact that the 4130 isn't classified as a P number is of little consequence.

Best regards - Al

 

[WE17]

Hi GTAW(AI),

Thankyou for reply my posting, I personally must be say thankyou.
by the way why qualified welder must be using side bend ? b31.3 328.2.1 a said all performance welder/welding operator and welding procedure shall conform asme IX and for welder refer to QW-302.1/3 bend tests or qw-302.2 volumetric NDE so my understanding I can used
bend test as well as RT, and I not need qualified new welder if I have existing welder QW-423.1 last sentence, "including unassigned metal of similiar chemical composition to these metal" my understanding If I have existing welder and have same chemical composition of
my unassigned metal so I can use it. Please correct me if my interpretation is uncorrect.

GTAW honestly my problem in my post are, I confused to decide base metal for my qualified my PQR.
[highlight #EF2929]"1. AISI 4130 welded to ASTM A487-4Q"
"2. ASTM A487 Gr 4D to ASTM A487-4Q"
"3. ASTM A487 Gr 4D to API 5L X52"[/highlight]
I have AISI 4130 this is round bar but I machining to the dimension I need (PIPE)
I have also API 5L X52 (PIPE)
now ASTM A487 4D and 4Q in production they are elbow and gate valve(casting), so how do you think qualified Pipe with elbow or gate valve?

This is the reason I want to qualified my pqr for SA333 with same P no (P11A) even though Group no different,but since we know together impact is suplementary essential so for my understanding I can use this SA333 with correct F no

Please kindly corret my statement and my interpretation if uncorrect and please give some advice material for my PQR please ?


Thanks n regard's


we17

 

[DekDee]

WE17,
Al has given you valuable advice but you must find out the details yourself (or get a Welding Engineer involved)

Have you read and understood Chapter IX High Pressure Piping ?
If not you are in serious trouble.

Here is your answer on why you can't use RT for welder qualification

K328.2.1 Qualification Requirements. Qualification
of the welding procedures to be used and of the performance
of welders and welding operators shall comply
with the requirements of the BPV Code, Section IX,
except as modified herein.

K328.2 Welding Qualifications
(e) Mechanical testing is required for all performance
qualification tests.

Here is your answer why you cannot use another P number material for your PQR

(b) Test weldments shall be made using the same specification
and type or grade of base metal(s), and the
same specification and classification of filler metal(s) as
will be used in production welding.

B31.3 High Pressure Piping is much more stringent than B31.3 NFS or SC and ASME IX for a reason - it is much more dangerous.
If you are not 100% confident in what you are doing I strongly recommend you get someone involved who is,
Regards,
DD

 

[gtaw]

Thanks DekDeee for providing a more detailed account of the "why's" of B31.3 High Pressure Fluid Service. I didn't have my copy of the code available when I responded.

Best regards - Al

 

[WE17]

Hi DekDee, Hi GTAW (AI)
Thankyou very much for valuable information you gave me. I read already all your recomendation and information, I almost
run PQR in different way. now I will request special material from the vendor. I love ENG TIPS so much and of course
I must be say GTAW and Dekdee you save me... Thankyou so much,

Thanks n regards

we17

 

[gtaw]

Glad we were able to help.

Best regards - Al