Pressure Vessel Newbie Questions 4

[jeanchile]

Hello all and I thank you for your time in advance.

I am new to the forum and even newer to pressure vessel design. One of my clients fabricates ASME pressure vessels. One of the tasks my company performs is creating the shop fabrication drawings for these vessels for them. We have been doing this for pressure vessels for quite some time.

Recently we were asked by this client if we can learn to use COMPress or something similar to calculate & design the pressure vessels as well as detail them (the vendor they are currently using for this will be closing soon). My understanding of this is that we will be given data sheets from their customer and we will need to complete the calculations, design, and shop drawings. My first instinct was that this would require a licensed engineer and some serious education, but they have since informed me that the vendor currently doing this for them is NOT a licensed engineer.

I have a whole bunch of questions for you brilliant people but I am going to start with these:
1.) Does performing calculations and design pressure vessels REQUIRE a licensed engineer to comply with ASME code? (I think I know the answer to this)
2.) Regardless of licensure, where would a complete newbie start to gather information about the training and education required to perform this task? I started a mechanical engineering degree in school but didn't finish. I would assume I need to go back there but I'm curious because if a license isn't required, perhaps the ASME teaches courses or something.

Any other useful information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your generous time.

 

[nickelkid]

Jeanchile,
I would highly recommend that you hire someone with this skill set to train and review your work. Compress is a relatively easy tool to use, perhaps too easy. You should not have many issues with finding a part time consultant to keep you on the right track while you gain and secure additional work. Many people work within the codes that are without a mechanical degree and/or license - experience will keep you out of trouble.

 

[MJCronin]

Interesting things must happen when an ASME U-1 data report must be signed...... No?

Who in the organization will do this ???

 

[bernoullies123]

1. Refer to ASME VIII Foreword notes... The Code cannot replace education, experience and the use of engineering judgment... The designer and engineers using computer programs are responsible for all tech assumptions used in the programs.

2. Read the Code. Read the books published about the codes. Take some courses specific in Pressure vessel design. And apply your learning to design a vessel by hand to understand the concepts and use your software as checks, and ensure any real design is done under the direct supervisor of a competent vessel designer until they feel your are competent yourself.

Good luck and enjoy.

 

[chicopee]

The code inspector would verify that calculations are consistent with ASME/NB codes during the fabrication stage of the pressure vessels(fired or unfired)at your clients'manufacturing shop, so it's up to you that the calculations,welding,material specs,etc... comply with the latest codes. The NB provides training programs for the uninitiated.

 

[NTME76249]

Compress is great Software but you can get yourself in big trouble quick if you don't understand how it relates to ASME Section 8. Find a Section 8 Div. 1 class and start there. Then take a compress class. You are not required to be licensed to perform these designs but the design does have to be signed off by an Authorized Inspector for the Manufacturer. I suggest you do the Designs, the calculations and leave the U1A up to the shop producing it, along with liability for your design meeting code. The authorized inspectors take no liability even though they sign off on it. Tread lightly and learn as much as you can.

Also Get your self a copy of the books below.
Pressure Vessel Handbook - 14th ed, Eugene F. Megyesy
Pressure Vessel Design Manual - 3rd (or Newer) D. Moss
ASME Section 8, Div 1 (Of Course)

Good Luck and hope it helps

Michael McMillan

http://cadtechie.blogspot.com/

 

[JStephen]

It would be worthwhile to look into the engineering licensing laws in your state. Generally, you can google "engineering licensing board + your state" and pull the website up, and the rules and laws should be on the website.

Usually, vessel design doesn't require a PE for various reasons. In some cases, the vessel is considered a "manufactured product", the same as a car or pump. In some cases, there are exemptions for industrial applications. Also, keep in mind that if a vessel is being furnished in State X, it would generally be the laws of State X that governed this, not the laws of your state, so you may wind up researching multiple states as you go along..

In your case, it may be a little different because it sounds like you are already acting as consultants to a degree, and if your work includes vessel design, you are then acting as consulting engineers, and would likely require licensing, even if the work you're doing would normally be exempt if the fabricator did it. For example, if GM designs a car, they don't need a PE to do that. If you open a consulting office that says "Jim Smith, Auto Designer", you'd generally need the licensing, then. Another issue that comes up is that you may have a situation where none of the parties involved in the work realize or care if a PE is involved, but state enegineering laws may still require it.

Vessel software generally assumes that you know what you're doing, that you understand the code being used, understand the methods being used, and use the software as a tool to accomplish that. I have seen some examples of non-engineers using vessel software, and it is not always a good situation. For example, you can simply fail to check some aspect of the design because you didn't realize you needed to, and if the software doesn't automatically include that check, you have a deficient design. You can have a printout showing that calculated stress is 300% of allowable stress, and the person using the software does not realize that it is a problem.

 

[jeanchile]

Excellent! Thank you everyone for the responses and valuable information.

Some more info:
1.)I appreciate everyone's concern about liability because that is exactly why I am asking.
2.)I would never just buy a program and start using it. There is functionality in my current software platform that, without the proper education and training, would yield results that are useless at best, incriminating at worst.
3.)I will check with my local licensing laws, that's not something I considered. We provide many services as a company and have licensed engineers on staff. I was concerned about whether someone unlicensed, such as myself, could "legally" perform the calculations, whether under the supervision of someone licensed or not. Combined with the fact that even the licensed engineers we have on staff have no experience in this field.
4.)The time frame for this venture is not immediate. There is time to obtain the necessary education and accreditations.
5.)I already own the Megyesy and Moss books. I bought them to gather more information about pressure vessels prior to providing the service of detailing them. Any others you can recommend?
6.)I am going to research the ASME U-1 data report to see what is being done now. I am completely ignorant about what this is.
7.)chicopee, when you say "The NB provides training programs for the uninitiated" are you referring to subsection NB of the code or something else? Is there a program from ASME I should be looking into that you are aware of? If that is the case then I'm thinking that perhaps two designers and one engineer from my office will attend something to get us all started in the right direction.

Thanks again to all of you, this is appreciated greatly!

 

[fairlane46]

NB stands for National Board of Boilers and Pressure Vessel Inspectors

http://www.nationalboard.org/default.aspx

 

[jeanchile]

Sorry for the late reply, I've been out of town lately. Thank you fairlane46, and all the others. If anyone else has anything for me to research please add it to my list. You all are a valuable resource for me and I appreciate the help immensely.