Pressure Vessel Relocation 5

[msr441]

Looking to relocate a 55 foot diameter sphere that is 1.25" thick. The work will involve cutting the sphere into pieces and reconstruct it in its new location. Here are a few questions I have.

1. What code will apply yo this job?
2. Would this work be a repair under API 510?
3. What is recommended as far as a hydro, will supports hold the weight of water?
4. Is PWHT required.

This job is new to me so any additional tips would be great.

 

[unclesyd]

What is the material of construction?

Name plate design conditions?

New design conditions if any?

Welding procedure?

Are the supports the same at the new location?

 

[msr441]

Good follow up questions. There is no data sheet and we are working off limited Information. Vessel is approx.20 years old.
A)The material is Carbon Steel, Possible SA-516
B)There is no nameplate on this sphere.
C)No new design conitions.
D)I have not yet seen a WPS, the job may start next year. Iam thinking E-7018?
E)Will be using the same supports.
Any additional Information please ask. Thank you.

 

[unclesyd]

Here goes as I thought a little more info would have been available as this big job and you have a critical path to follow.
.
What was the original process fluid and what will be the fluid in the relocated vessel?
The reason for this question is that some process material can cause problems with the construction material which will require consideration when you move the vessel.

What pressure vessel code do you operate under?
Our 4 spheres were built under ASME VIII which I think your vessels may have been built under.

Can you dig into your records, like engineering projects, purchasing, etc to get more info on the vessel?
If it was built by one of the firms like CBI they will have all the design details and they can look it up by data and location.

Do you have access to a portable x-ray analyser for positive material identification?

 

[JoeTank]

mrs441
This is a pretty striaght forward project, but I think you need to hire a competent pressure vessel consultant to assist you on the project.

Joe Tank

 

[metengr]

msr441;
If I said this once I will say it again. If this is an ASME Section VIII, Div 1 stamped pressure vessel, before you do anything you need to contact the Boiler/Pressure Vessel Safety Division of where you intend to re-locate the object, especially in the US.

If you do not have the local Jurisdiction involved to inform them and work with them on a vessel re-location, straightforward job or not you will not be able operate the vessel. In other words, get the local Jurisdictional involved now, in additio to the other advice mentioned above.

 

[msr441]

Thanks for all the tips.
The job will be done in Latin America so I have to research the Jurisdictional requirments. The sphere was used to hold butane. We will have a PMI machine here later, possibly in August. This week I will be researching more info on the vessel. Will this job be considered a repair under 510?

 

[MJCronin]

Bravo, metengr and unclesyd......!! Those statements are the right advice !!!

You are on target, plant and pressure vessel owners that refuse to keep records on thier equipment do not deserve a "break" in their code of construction.

Because this situation is so unique in terms of having an old, complex vessel relocated, I wonder if there was a financial study performed comparing the relocation with the purchase of a new vessel ?

Furthermore, must this vessel be of spherical shape ? Or are the owners trying to save a buck ??

Msr, you may want to consult the latest issue of "Hydrocarbon Processing" magazine (June 2008. Contained within this issue is an article about the difficulties in weld repairing of old "Horton Spheres" based on certain types of service (aggressive cracking induced by the flud contained and the vessel material)

One of the strong recommendations in the article is that, for C3/propylene service the SA537 carbon steel is much more susceptable to cracking than the more commonly used SA516 - Gr 60/70....

Msr...... what is the MOC of your sphere,....once again ?

-MJC

 

[msr441]

The Management of Change is only to remove the sphere from one location to another. I also questioned why not get a new one, where is the cost savings in all this and will it be safe? I agree with all that responed, and your right MJCronin they should not get a code break. I dont know if the owners are trying to save a buck or pass it along. I will look for the article in the Hydrocarbon Processing magazine. So IF this job goes through would it be considered a API 510 repair?

 

[roca]

Scrap it and start again.

 

[HEC]

IMHO it would not be a repair, as you will be carrying out extensive welding work.
In relation to the support legs being suitable for the pressure test. do the strength calculations on it! Do not forget to check the quality and strength of the foundations where it is to be located. When full you will have 150 tonne of water!
MOC... Material of Construction!
I would tend to agree wiht roca, scrap it and start again!

Mark Hutton

 

[msr441]

Thanks for all your input, I will recommend to replace not to rebuild. In the past I have seen smaller vessels cut due to corrosion, heads and shell plates removed and new sections welded in. Iam sure that the work was done to API and NBIC, plus done in the USA. So a job this big got me wondering what code would be used. I agree with HEC it to much welding for a repair and hydro seems risky. I hope they scrap!

 

[unclesyd]

I hate the games where you have to play the cards in your hand.

I've been checking around with a few people I know that have worked on spheres. All had helped build, repair or worked on the demolition of same, none had ever seen a large one cut up and relocated. They knew of some smaller ones being moved but were not aware of the exact process. All agree with most of what has been posted and mentioned the amount of cutting, fitting, and welding that would be required to put one back together. This was based on the amount of work required for demolition of a sphere.

Two people who are familiar with API 510 said they didn't see where it would be prohibited but couldn't rationalize a move being a repair. I hope to hear back form them as they were kinda busy as management announced that they try to sell the company. They specifically mention the process of tank relocation under 653 but didn't go into details.

Here is a bulletin I've seen referenced on several occasions.
CBI The Storage of Volatile Liquids
Technical Bulletin #20

We have 2 spheres of your approximate size and we were persuaded not to try to move one in the 60's so the second one was built next to it. These were in anhydrous ammonia service and due to cracking and repairs have been derated to a liquid storage status.

 

[Mikespell]

msr441,

I have been asked to do a feasibility study to relocate three 2,500 m3 butane storage spheres overseas. I can't believe it would be feasible, but I need to run the numbers to be sure. They are also looking to save time in construction. These are carbon steel, 1.1" wall thickness, and 55' diameter. Of course, they will have to be cut up and then re-welded at the job-site.

Anyway, did you successfully relocate a storage sphere?

Anyone else on this thread have any input?

Thanks

 

[MJCronin]

Mike...

IMHO, there would, of course, be massive possible savings in material costs and in delivery times because of the unique vessel shape.

There would also be large construction risks because you will probably be faced with a low cost bidder who has never done this type of complex work before.

My first question would be....Has anyone ever done this before ?

Could you contact some of the majors in the USA (CBI, Matrix etc) and ask the marketing/repair people if there ever has been a relocation like your management is envisioning..?

In 1988,some clowns from Ashland Oil Company relocated a old (1940s)large API-650 tank on an nearby river some 20 years ago....then filled it with oil. It was rebuilt by somebody to some unknown standard

During the initial fill on January 1988, it failed...oil
overflowed the containment into the river....the MBA vice president said that this was a phenomena "unknown to man"

http://www.reliability.com/industry/articles/article56.swf

Be careful

Tell us more about your final decision

-MJC

 

[msr441]

mikespell,

The relocation never went through, it was an old sphere and cost played a big factor. The base metal was also found to have small fissures when examined under a microscope, so safety also came into play. The question I still have is what code would a re-built sphere fall under. I have ask around and I not got a for sure answer for pressure vessels. If any one knows for future reference let me know. Again thanks for all you input. Nice to get expert opinions. msr441

 

[Bonswa]

IF.... the procedure would have gone through, you would have inspected the sphere to API-510. That being said, the reconstruction would have fallen under the original construction code. In this case, you dont know what the original construction code was. However, being that it's only 20 years old, I'm sure there's some information on the sphere somewhere nearby. If not, you're going to be playing hell with a lot of unknown variables with the reconstruction.

Also, in terms of the hydrotest. Normally, I would opt for a pressure test instead of a hydrotest for a vessel of this size or orientation. API-510 details the procedure.

 

[racookpe1978]

Are you sure this would be feasible in the time you have available?
assume you're going to cut the 55 ft sphere in half at the mid-point, then slice the top and bottom into quarters for movement. These would give you 8 "orange peels" 27 ft x 27 ft x 19 ft. Fairly large, but probably small enough to get across the facility (between/below/around all obstacles) to the rebuild site. Maybe. Your crane capacity and movement methods and load path will actually determine what is the largest chunk of steel you can handle. Do that first - what would I have to do to cut it, "move it," re-assemble it, and re-weld it - then worry about recert's on the tank on the welds.

But you'd need 836 linear feet of weld on a PV 55 foot in diameter over 1" thick. You have 1727 linear feet of weld prep to do. (Both sides of every weld needs a clean prep ground relatively smooth into a Vee shape. Get a weld expert to verify me though!) And all of this has to be done in the field on rough scaffolding 5 floors up.

Are you really sure you'd want to do that?