Print check history management

[bnmorgan]

As a result of the wonderful forced transition to ISO, we're trying to find information on methods used to track print checks. When we make new prints or revise prints, we run through a fairly simple cross check. Each engineer/draftsman (we all do both here) passes their prints off to another in the department, who makes appropriate changes, additions, and suggestions, and then passes it back to the originator. This repeats as necessary until the print is complete and acceptable in style and standard. We have, up to this point maintained these copies for a very short period, if at all, beyond the issue of the print which has been checked (our engineering dept has only existed for ~5 years).

Rambling, sorry.

I need suggestions or sources of ways to maintain these checked prints. We prefer something besides hard-copies.
There are ideas being passed around, but we thought it might be helpful to get ideas how other departments handle this issue.

Thanks,
Byron


Byron Morgan - Tupelo, Mississippi
1947 Mayline
SolidWorks 2008
NX4

 

[KENAT]

The Checking function has only existed here for 3 years or so. So far we just keep the hardcopy redlines in (or more recently on top of) a filing cabinet. However, I'm just about at capacity so am facing similar concerns.

One obvious idea is to scan the redlines and perhaps store them with the CAD data, in a history folder or something. If using PLM/PDM might be slightly different but in principle would make sense.

I also keep a log of all checking where I track how many times the print went back & forth, what date etc. Comes in usefull when people try dodging checking or blame me for holding them up when it turns out redlines are with them.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[ctopher]

At my last company we scanned them into PDF format and stored them on a server that was backed up. We had a full E size printer and a normal printer, both that scanned to PDF.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Jul 13, 2008)

 

[MadMango]

We scan to PDF and file away on the network.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[bnmorgan]

What kind of naming/tracking schemes are in use?


Byron Morgan - Tupelo, Mississippi
1947 Mayline
SolidWorks 2008
NX4

 

[MadMango]

File name = 6-digit part number + alpha revision level + numeric version level

Example: 845200revCver3

Means drawing 845200, revision C. The version indicates the number of times that it has been "redlined" (3 times) to get approved to go to RevD.

Some PLM/PDM systems use "version", so you might have to find another suffix.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[fcsuper]

Official requirement for the storing of print checks? OMG! I would just right an SOP internal expection to the rule right than create that infrastructure.

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

 

[KENAT]

Just occured to me, my last place in the UK was ISO 9000 and various military/aerospace standards compliant.

We did not keep check prints once the drawing was released. We had a shelfull of company procedures etc but that wasn't one of them.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[bnmorgan]

Well, the example of MM works for us I think,
EX-001-00 (base release)
EX-001-00 A (Revision)
EX-001-00 B.1 (first check of new rev B on it's way to release) And stored in a different subordinate location to where the released revisions are.

We're trying to go 100% ditigal, scanning the bloody papers for storage (that's redlines....if you saw some of the stuff that gets passed for checks.......you'd understand)

Matt....I don't quite follow yours.

Thanks

Byron Morgan - Tupelo, Mississippi
1947 Mayline
SolidWorks 2008
NX4

 

[GBor]

We're AS9100 certified (like an aerospace version of ISO...some say more stringent...I think it is about the same). I used to work for a company that was ISO9000 certified. Never kept check prints, just released revisions with revision history.

 

[KENAT]

As I recall a big part of ISO quality was just making sure whatever company policies/procedures etc you had were documented and that you demonstrated compliance. So do you have a policy that check prints are kept? If so maybe you can just re-word this to suit.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[MadMango]

My last company was ISO 9000:2000, we never kept check prints either. Could someone cite the ISO paragraph that states that check prints need to be tracked? If this is just for "storage of documents" you can argue that check prints don't need to be stored, especially if you are using ECO/ECNs (detailed info is contained there).

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[bnmorgan]

We don't do ECO's, only ECN's. The revision process for us is often such a dynamic thing that an ECO would have to be generated after the revision was complete, basicly becoming a verbose explanation of the concise text on the rev block of the print.

We don't currently have a policy of retaining check prints, but we're wanting to develop one. Just not sure where to start.

Thanks.


Byron Morgan - Tupelo, Mississippi
1947 Mayline
SolidWorks 2008
NX4

 

[ewh]

What exactly is the difference in how ECNs differ from ECOs in your company?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - [small]Thomas Jefferson [/small]

 

[MadMango]

It's all semantics when it comes to TLAs.

ECO- Engineering Change Order
ENC- Engineering Change Notice
EO- Engineering Order
DCN- Document Change Notice
EDC- Engineering Document Change

I have see all the above in the past, all basically the same thing, control of documents and configurations.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[fcsuper]

As long as approvals happen before notification and notification happens before implementation, it doesn't matter what you call it.

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

 

[KENAT]

Someplaces have a differentian though MM.

They have one form proposing a change, which in some cases allows production to manufacture to the change prior to incorporation into the documents(I've seen it called an ECR). They then actually incorporate the change and list what was changed in another form (I've seen ECO & ECN. One thing to note is that a single one of the latter may incorporate several of the former.

We had completely different names and systems in the UK where I worked.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[bnmorgan]

For us, an ECN is Engineering Change Notice, letting the other departments know (and suppliers through the chain of command) know that there has been a change to a print. We discussed ECR/ECO's, which would be where another department requests, or Eng. Mgr. orders a change to be made. We shortly after decided that the r&d nature of our work would make that a very cumbersome process.

Byron Morgan - Tupelo, Mississippi
1947 Mayline
SolidWorks 2008
NX4

 

[ctopher]

Same as the others. I have seen them all and they mean the same at different companies. For the most part, the departments that want them import the name from their last company, and so on. As long as you have a form of Configuration Management in place, and follow it, any of them will work.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Jul 13, 2008)

 

[ewh]

OK.
The reason I asked is because I've usually seen the terms ECN, ECO and EO used interchangably, depending on the company. I have yet to work somewhere that has used more than one of those terms, though I have seen ECRs or ERs used with all.
It boils down to, as Chris points out, what your configuration management states are the terms that will be used.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - [small]Thomas Jefferson [/small]