I have only worked in my field for 2 years, but have just accepted a higher position within the company. My previous position was at the corporate level, where the dress code was at minimum khakis. I dressed in khakis, but received professional opinion that I should be dressing above the norm because of my engineering background. Now, I will be working at the plant, but I still want to be perceived as a young professional. There is no dress code at the plant, other than safety. I believe that being a woman it is harder to dress the part because I can't wear skirts, and good dress shoes are hard to find. Any suggestions?
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Professional Attire 2
- Thread starter Christie1
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I once worked for a woman who was very well thought of both by her manangement and by her employees. She and I were pretty good freinds and once we had a discussion about dress. Her opinion is that you (both men and women)should dress in a manner that never makes people think about your clothing. She wore jeans and fire retardant shirts with steel-toed boots when she was going to the field, fairly rough slacks for the field office, and soft clothes for the main office. Her goal in every case was exceed safety requirements and not call attention to her attire. Away from work she dressed pretty well, but at work she dressed "boring" (her term).
I don't know if that helps, or if it works for anyone else. She moved quickly up a very competitive ladder and in her opinion she did it by making sure that people thought of her (impressive) ability and not about her body or clothes.
I've seen clothing choices work against both men and women. Men who dress in very trendy clothes in a staid engineering job tend to be though of as "flashy" and seldom get the tough jobs or the advancement. Same with women. I've heard people say "clothing should be irrelevant" and I agree wholeheartedly - it should be. But it isn't and if you can't dress down to meet a situation then you probably shouldn't be working in a corporate environment.
David
I don't know if that helps, or if it works for anyone else. She moved quickly up a very competitive ladder and in her opinion she did it by making sure that people thought of her (impressive) ability and not about her body or clothes.
I've seen clothing choices work against both men and women. Men who dress in very trendy clothes in a staid engineering job tend to be though of as "flashy" and seldom get the tough jobs or the advancement. Same with women. I've heard people say "clothing should be irrelevant" and I agree wholeheartedly - it should be. But it isn't and if you can't dress down to meet a situation then you probably shouldn't be working in a corporate environment.
David
That's a very interesting post. A lot also depends on the work culture each organisation has. Till recently, I was working as a senior sales engineer and was in formas almost everyday whether I go out to meet a customer or not. However, now I have taken up a higher position (Manager) in a different company and the work culture here is just "formals", some guys even wear "casuals" !!! No ties till you are a General Manager - which is at least 3 to 4 levels above my present position.
Work culture of individual organisations plays a very vital role in deciding the dress code. I would have been "standing out of the crowd" if I were to wear a tie now !!!
HVAC68
Work culture of individual organisations plays a very vital role in deciding the dress code. I would have been "standing out of the crowd" if I were to wear a tie now !!!
HVAC68
One school of thought is to dress to the teeth and then have coveralls and a change of shoes for going out into the gritty world. I disagree with this.
zdas04 is right on.
Other threads that have addressed this:
thread731-93588
GeneratorGrrl's Dec. 14 post in thread731-110284
Polo shirts seem to be popular in environments where short sleeves are safe.
In warm weather in the shop I wear cotton short-sleeved shirts with buttons, and jeans. In winter so far I wear denim shirts but then I violate the rule of dressing better than the shop personnel. I'm still working on that one. I need some long-sleeved shirts I'm willing to get torn or stained. My male boss wears polo shirts and jeans to the plant. People higher than that just daintily step through on the occasional tour, so they wear their ties.
Do not worry about dress shoes in the plant. You do not want to have to change shoes in order to go out on the floor. If your plant requires steeltoes for the workers, you wear them too; it'll undermine your credibility otherwise. If the workers in your plant don't wear steeltoes, then get some good nonskid loafers. I'm a fan of docksiders, though those are harder to find in womens/boys' sizes than they were a decade or two ago. If you really don't feel you can wear jeans, even with a better shirt than those around you, keep the khakis (or get some khaki-colored jeans).
You've undoubtedly worked this out already, but hair needs to work under (and after) a hardhat, if it's a hardhat shop. Not being a manager, I can get away with swapping the hardhat for a baseball cap on really bad days (as does my male boss), but I suppose that's out of the question for you.
Minimal or no jewelry, and nothing dangly. (Take a look at what the male workers are wearing, seriously.)
Minimal, "natural", or no makeup--and depending on the shop environment, sweatproof if you feel must wear it. You don't want to be seen fixing your makeup.
Then again, one of my classmates told me that I'm setting the bar for everyone else following in my footsteps, and it's my duty to set it as low as possible!
Hg
zdas04 is right on.
Other threads that have addressed this:
thread731-93588
GeneratorGrrl's Dec. 14 post in thread731-110284
Polo shirts seem to be popular in environments where short sleeves are safe.
In warm weather in the shop I wear cotton short-sleeved shirts with buttons, and jeans. In winter so far I wear denim shirts but then I violate the rule of dressing better than the shop personnel. I'm still working on that one. I need some long-sleeved shirts I'm willing to get torn or stained. My male boss wears polo shirts and jeans to the plant. People higher than that just daintily step through on the occasional tour, so they wear their ties.
Do not worry about dress shoes in the plant. You do not want to have to change shoes in order to go out on the floor. If your plant requires steeltoes for the workers, you wear them too; it'll undermine your credibility otherwise. If the workers in your plant don't wear steeltoes, then get some good nonskid loafers. I'm a fan of docksiders, though those are harder to find in womens/boys' sizes than they were a decade or two ago. If you really don't feel you can wear jeans, even with a better shirt than those around you, keep the khakis (or get some khaki-colored jeans).
You've undoubtedly worked this out already, but hair needs to work under (and after) a hardhat, if it's a hardhat shop. Not being a manager, I can get away with swapping the hardhat for a baseball cap on really bad days (as does my male boss), but I suppose that's out of the question for you.
Minimal or no jewelry, and nothing dangly. (Take a look at what the male workers are wearing, seriously.)
Minimal, "natural", or no makeup--and depending on the shop environment, sweatproof if you feel must wear it. You don't want to be seen fixing your makeup.
Then again, one of my classmates told me that I'm setting the bar for everyone else following in my footsteps, and it's my duty to set it as low as possible!
Hg
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GeneratorGrrl
Mechanical
Did somebody take my name in vain? XD
Hi Christie! I find myself in a position of odd imbalance: I work in the industrial plant of a mushroom farm and I do more plant maintenance/operations than office/corporate.. but I also do a lot of meetings and seminars and must be prepared to change hats (and clothes) at a moment's notice!
If I'm going to an off-plant meeting, seminar or trade show, I dress in full corporate gear. I found that if I wear a skirt - even a business suit skirt - I get treated like a 'lady', but not acknowledged as an engineer. So I wear slacks, a simple blouse and accent scarf, and a suit jacket, and I wear my hair in a French twist. As HgTX suggests, I wear 'natural' makeup. Dressed like this, people seem to see "engineer" first, "woman" after. Some people still treat me like Zaphod Beeblebrox, but most people just treat me like any other engineering professional and once we start talking shop, the love of engineering melts all other differences :B
For interviews, I dress very much the same way, only I make sure that everything I'm wearing is machine washable. If I can't peel it off and chuck it into the washer, I don't wear it. This is because I never know exactly what I'll be doing, and quite often a plant tour is involved -- so safety shoes and a hairstyle that fits under a bump cap are wise ideas.
On site, even the office area of our plant is very dusty and prone to dirt. Washable slacks are suitable here, and tidy jeans and shirts are considered quite acceptable here, especially among the maintenance office staff. In the industrial plant itself, rubbies are the norm for maintenance and compost personnel, as they are always hidden by coveralls. 70% of the time, I'm in the plant and hidden under my coveralls. Unfortunately, my coveralls are baggy and shapeless and make me look like a 6 year old playing dress-up -- not too professional of a presentation XD So I always have a clean labcoat-style of coverall handy: If a sales rep drops by or an unexpected meeting is called, I can jump out of my baggy suit and pull on my labcoat. The labcoat makes a dramatic difference in professional appearance (people start calling me "the Doctor" whenever I've got my labcoat on XD ) Its instant respect, so I recommend having one - check with whomever supplies your coveralls.
Our plant is a food growing/processing plant, so OSHA regulations forbid makeup, which makes my morning easier XD Contact lenses are also not a good idea here, as there is so much dust (gets under lenses and scratches corneas) Again as HgTX pointed out, jewellery of any sort (rings, earrings, necklaces, toe rings, piercings, etc) are safety hazards, from both electrical and mechanical standpoints. If your hair is long, wear it in a topknot, a low chignon or bee-butt bun, or a French twist: These styles fit under hard hats and bump caps, keep all of the hair out of mechanical and chemical risk, and look professional when you take your hat off for a meeting. I don't recommend a braid because the braid can still swing around and get caught in machinery or dunk itself into chemicals; wear a braid only if you know for sure that you won't be anywhere near any kind of machinery. Forego the fancy hair sticks, French twist combs, Ficcare clips and other embellishments if you know you're going to be wearing your hat - they'll get damaged and pose the same risks as other jewellery. If you know you won't be wearing your hat at any time during the day (seminars, trade shows, etc), then the hair jewellery is great. If you can't find dressy-looking steel-toed shoes in your size (lord knows I can't), then don't worry about it: Steel-toed shoes are always acceptable industrial business attire, no matter how scuffy they are. If you're doing a lot of transitioning between the office and the plant, wear your steel-toes and your hard hat. Even if you're wearing a suit. Attention to safety is the most professional image you can project, so choose safety first over spiffy - coz with Murphy's Law, the day you choose spiffy is the the day you lose toes >.<
Your situation is no doubt very different from mine, but I hope this helps a bit. Congratulations on your promotion, Christie, and good luck
"Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways."
Hi Christie! I find myself in a position of odd imbalance: I work in the industrial plant of a mushroom farm and I do more plant maintenance/operations than office/corporate.. but I also do a lot of meetings and seminars and must be prepared to change hats (and clothes) at a moment's notice!
If I'm going to an off-plant meeting, seminar or trade show, I dress in full corporate gear. I found that if I wear a skirt - even a business suit skirt - I get treated like a 'lady', but not acknowledged as an engineer. So I wear slacks, a simple blouse and accent scarf, and a suit jacket, and I wear my hair in a French twist. As HgTX suggests, I wear 'natural' makeup. Dressed like this, people seem to see "engineer" first, "woman" after. Some people still treat me like Zaphod Beeblebrox, but most people just treat me like any other engineering professional and once we start talking shop, the love of engineering melts all other differences :B
For interviews, I dress very much the same way, only I make sure that everything I'm wearing is machine washable. If I can't peel it off and chuck it into the washer, I don't wear it. This is because I never know exactly what I'll be doing, and quite often a plant tour is involved -- so safety shoes and a hairstyle that fits under a bump cap are wise ideas.
On site, even the office area of our plant is very dusty and prone to dirt. Washable slacks are suitable here, and tidy jeans and shirts are considered quite acceptable here, especially among the maintenance office staff. In the industrial plant itself, rubbies are the norm for maintenance and compost personnel, as they are always hidden by coveralls. 70% of the time, I'm in the plant and hidden under my coveralls. Unfortunately, my coveralls are baggy and shapeless and make me look like a 6 year old playing dress-up -- not too professional of a presentation XD So I always have a clean labcoat-style of coverall handy: If a sales rep drops by or an unexpected meeting is called, I can jump out of my baggy suit and pull on my labcoat. The labcoat makes a dramatic difference in professional appearance (people start calling me "the Doctor" whenever I've got my labcoat on XD ) Its instant respect, so I recommend having one - check with whomever supplies your coveralls.
Our plant is a food growing/processing plant, so OSHA regulations forbid makeup, which makes my morning easier XD Contact lenses are also not a good idea here, as there is so much dust (gets under lenses and scratches corneas) Again as HgTX pointed out, jewellery of any sort (rings, earrings, necklaces, toe rings, piercings, etc) are safety hazards, from both electrical and mechanical standpoints. If your hair is long, wear it in a topknot, a low chignon or bee-butt bun, or a French twist: These styles fit under hard hats and bump caps, keep all of the hair out of mechanical and chemical risk, and look professional when you take your hat off for a meeting. I don't recommend a braid because the braid can still swing around and get caught in machinery or dunk itself into chemicals; wear a braid only if you know for sure that you won't be anywhere near any kind of machinery. Forego the fancy hair sticks, French twist combs, Ficcare clips and other embellishments if you know you're going to be wearing your hat - they'll get damaged and pose the same risks as other jewellery. If you know you won't be wearing your hat at any time during the day (seminars, trade shows, etc), then the hair jewellery is great. If you can't find dressy-looking steel-toed shoes in your size (lord knows I can't), then don't worry about it: Steel-toed shoes are always acceptable industrial business attire, no matter how scuffy they are. If you're doing a lot of transitioning between the office and the plant, wear your steel-toes and your hard hat. Even if you're wearing a suit. Attention to safety is the most professional image you can project, so choose safety first over spiffy - coz with Murphy's Law, the day you choose spiffy is the the day you lose toes >.<
Your situation is no doubt very different from mine, but I hope this helps a bit. Congratulations on your promotion, Christie, and good luck
"Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways."
Hi Christie,
My suggestion to you is to wear dress pants and dress shirts with safety shoes, or a sweater on occasion. Never sleeveless shirts, never skirts, and never open toe shoes.
I work in an engine shop where there are some 20 engineers, and two of us are women. We both wear dress pants and dress shirts even though most of the guys don't, but we look much more professional then they do. Unfortunately for us, we still have to do a little more to be "professional" then men do, but hopefully not for too long!
Coka
My suggestion to you is to wear dress pants and dress shirts with safety shoes, or a sweater on occasion. Never sleeveless shirts, never skirts, and never open toe shoes.
I work in an engine shop where there are some 20 engineers, and two of us are women. We both wear dress pants and dress shirts even though most of the guys don't, but we look much more professional then they do. Unfortunately for us, we still have to do a little more to be "professional" then men do, but hopefully not for too long!
Coka
How about hairstyles? I recently graduated so I'm young compared to everyone in my office and I always had a 'messy' hairstyle, meaning it looks like I just got out of bed. I'm wondering if I should tone down my hairstyle and get a 'boring' cut. Otherwise, I dress professional, dress pants, dress shirt, dress shoes where khakis and polo shirts are considered acceptable.
GeneratorGrrl
Mechanical
Glace, I'd suggest not so much a 'boring' cut, but something that can switch quickly and easily between 'professional' and 'bedhead' -- once you're hired and established and your coworkers get to know you a bit, you can relax again, but when you're competing for that opening, every little weapon counts.
BigH, a quick search of this forum will show you some of the reactions to "staying with who you are" during an interview. Quite a lot of people never get the job to buy the drums with :B It was worth it to me to line-dance for a few days, in order to get myself established and buy drums. Now I'm being groomed for a higher position, quirks and all.
"Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways."
BigH, a quick search of this forum will show you some of the reactions to "staying with who you are" during an interview. Quite a lot of people never get the job to buy the drums with :B It was worth it to me to line-dance for a few days, in order to get myself established and buy drums. Now I'm being groomed for a higher position, quirks and all.
"Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways."
automatic2
Industrial
Full coverage, short sleeves acceptable. Your impression will be made by clean crisp lines. No accessories above earrings/ring and watch (safety first). Jacket preferred over sweaters. Khakis are definetly a no no. Pumps are available in steel toe and are comfortable. Your original post stated 'being a woman was hard to dress the part'. Don't dress to be a woman, dress to be an engineer. Your gender will be evident in the grace that you deliver your skills.
I don't think she was worried about how to look like a woman while still looking like an engineer. The problem is how to look like an engineer while, unavoidably, looking like a woman.
Women's typical professionalwear is typically not as well-suited to a plant environment as men's. Many suits have skirts, and even in the world of pantsuits, the trouser legs are awfully wide these days. Many items have no pockets. Shoes aren't as sturdy (when steeltoes aren't required).
Khakis wouldn't be a no-no if everyone else is in jeans.
Hg
Women's typical professionalwear is typically not as well-suited to a plant environment as men's. Many suits have skirts, and even in the world of pantsuits, the trouser legs are awfully wide these days. Many items have no pockets. Shoes aren't as sturdy (when steeltoes aren't required).
Khakis wouldn't be a no-no if everyone else is in jeans.
Hg
![[afro2]](/data/assets/smilies/afro2.gif "[afro2] [afro2]")
My different drummer is to wear a yellow tie with Tweetie bird on it than a "power" tie! There is proper attire to be sure and I do - but to go overboard; a $1000 suit vs a sports jacket with matching slacks, etc. Still, I will march to Jazz (Davis, Coltrane, Mingus, Monk, Getz) anyday over Celine Dion et. al. (and most especially Kenny G)
![[cheers]](/data/assets/smilies/cheers.gif "[cheers] [cheers]")
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