Professionalism abused? 24

[KENAT]

One of the replies to thread765-195797 got me thinking.

Why is it that whenever professionalism is brought up on this forum it's basically used as a reason to take whatever your management/employer decides to dish out and not complain/stand up for yourself.

They may be making you work long hours, accusing you of not being a team player for taking vacation, taking credit for your ideas or making life miserable in some other way but the professional thing seems to be to suck it up and take it.

I suppose the professional thing to do if it causes you too much concern is just find alternative employment.

I get sick and tired of professionalism being used as an excuse for employers to treat us poorly without any comeback, am I the only one?

Not sure this is the right forum but didn’t think it belonged in ethics either.


KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[ctopher]

You are correct. I see this everywhere, not just in an office. I see professionalism, ethics, good manners and motivation going away more every year. Sad.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

 

[debodine]

I have long believed that there are at least two trends that accelerate the loss of professionalism in both the engineering profession and elsewhere in the corporate world.

I should state I have always worked in the US for US companies, with an occasional overseas trip but no real experience with corporate culture outside the US. This may make my remarks way off base in other nations.

First, the trend toward financial rather than operations/technical/entrepreneur people leading corporations. Many technology companies were begun decades ago by engineer/technical/inventor types, and for many years those are the backgrounds of the folks who made it to the top of the ladders to the President and/or the CEO level. Today many more "bean counter" types take the top spots.

I realize corporations are in business to make a profit but I believe bean counters take a much shorter term view of the future (this quarter's stock price) rather than the longer term views that technical types used to take. Think Japanese corporations who often have ten, twenty-five and even fifty year plans for corporate direction.

Second, the rise of the HR department has crowned entire departments as "pseudo-lawyers" with all the tendency to split hairs, over-regulate and dumb down policies that a real lawyer has, without the usual Juris Doctorate degree and the Esq. after the name that genuine lawyers receive.

i am sure there are other causes, and I may have completely missed more important causes than these. But these are two that bother me.

debodine

 

[PhilBW]

I don't think professionalism means taking whatever your company decides to dump on you. You display professionalism in how you respond during those situations.

There are good bosses and there are bad bosses. Professionalism means sucking it up and tolerating a bad boss, just because he's the boss. If you get tired of the situation, there are appropriate ways to end the situation. A professional does not undermine or discredit a bad boss, even if he is a real jerk.

You can disagree with your boss but do it respectfully. That is professionalism. However, you still need to remember which of you is the boss.

Sometimes professionalism is doing things you disagree with without complaining because you know it is not your decision whether those things should be done or not.

There are times when your company really needs you to put in extra time. Professionalism is working the extra time even if it doesn't fit your personal plans. There are other times the company wants you to work extra hours, but don't really need you to work extra hours. You can respectfully decline, explaining your reasoning, and still be acting in a professional manner. If they still demand your time, professionalism means putting in the time. If it gets to be too much, there are other jobs.

Professionalism often means doing what we know is right, even if it is not what we really want to do. We should always put forth our very best effort, and if that makes our life misreable, we need to make a job change rather than make trouble.

 

[csd72]

BRAVO KENAT,

At least someone has said it.

In Australia I found that some of the trades on construction sites were earning more than me. The reason I believe is that they were not too snobish to go on strike if they did not get paid enough.

Sometimes us engineers are too worried about looking professional.

csd

 

[epoisses]

KENAT
Some motivational speech just to make things even worse: :-D

http://www.tipsforsuccess.org/professionalism.htm

They use "amateur" as the opposite, which is worrying because amateur means (in French) someone who likes something or likes doing something. Which suggests a professional does not do his work because he likes it, but does it because... who knows what, because he gets paid I guess.

I don't know, being "professional" is something desirable but has a loose enough definition to be used as a carrot to lead you anywhere management wants you to go. In the same category: team player.

 

[TheBlacksmith]

I think it all has to do with respect. In the military I learned that respect was something earned, not given or demanded. As others have alluded to, the bean counters and HR types (I am loathe to say people here) have started to treat people like commodities, to be cataloged, standardized and bought for the lowest possible price. This lack of respect for the employees by what passes as the company eventually gets returned. As I am writing this, a valued member of my team is packing up and moving on, an event certainly aided by this year's decree from on high to cut the number of promotions by 75% and his promotion went on the scrap heap! So he is doing the "professional" thing and moving on rather than staying and slacking off, but the company is losing a smart, talented and hard working engineer because of its short sightedness. The other problem with standardizing is to stifle individual creativity and innovation, again, the company ultimately loses.

 

[csd72]

We can only talk with our feet.

csd

 

[BJC]

"In the military I learned that respect was something earned, not given or demanded."
It's something you earn in Engineering as well. You earn it by gaining experience and knowledge. You earn it my gaining leagle status as an engineer.
You can earn it by doing good work, apply your experience wisely to solve problems.
You can loose respect in lots of ways. Working free is one of the best ways. Managers and HR people look at you as a nerd who is so enamored by the technology of their job that they never see the big picture.
Professionalism is a forest, some engineers never get past the trees, to many are fixed on the beetles on the bark. Some engineers enjoy their work so much their willing to work on Saturdays for free (they get lost to easily in the technical details- AKA beetles ). Managers and HR types like that but don't look to gain any respect from it. You will msot likely loose respect from it.

You want respect? Trade solutions for dollars, don't trade hours for dollars.

 

[Latexman]

We had a VP about 10 years ago that was always trying to convince us everyone in the business was "family". Why? Because "family doesn't let family down". Give me a break! It was just a pathetic attempt to pressure people into giving more and swing the master/slave (employer/employee) balance towards the dark side!

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[Comcokid]

Engineers are professionals. It takes either years of education or experience (in most companies) to obtain the title of Engineer. In addition, to become a professional engineer, it requires a state license exam and registration.

However, in most companies, there is less job-specific training required to become a manager that there is to be a hamburger-flipper at the local fast-food joint. Think about it! Most people promoted or hired in a management position have had no formal education for the position.

I can't recall a manager in the two levels above me at the last several jobs who had so much as an MBA. Only in one company did the manager have some management training - a two year associates, and his entire 15 year experience background was in sales in an unrelated industry, but he was hired to run an R&D department (a fiasco even beyond a Dilbert cartoon!).

The problem with Engineers is; that as Professionals, we are managed and controlled by non-professionals.

 

[EddyC]

My experience is that the "rank & file" engineers are far more professional that the bosses. Its the "rank & file" that generally wants to do a good job. The bosses however always say "We don't have the time & money", so the work goes out incomplete and not meeting code.

 

[BJC]

If engineers blame others for their lack of Professionalism they will continue to be treated as a commodity.
Hospitals are mannaged by non professionals yet I have never heard of an adminstrator tell the doctors to space out suitures to save money on thread. Hospitals came to mind first, there are other examples. An engineer can command respect from management if he/she knows what their doing.

On the other side of the fence. I have managed engineers and I know that there are many of them that don't know when to quit. Not every engineering task requires an optimal design. If your a professional I expect you to know to do an optimal job in a reasonable time. I also expect them to know when to know when more time is required and to be able to convey that need to non engineering types.
As a manager I supported good engineers to the point of going out the door. I have also threatened to show engineers the door when they spend time polishing turds.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

"There are good bosses and there are bad bosses. Professionalism means sucking it up and tolerating a bad boss, just because he's the boss. If you get tired of the situation, there are appropriate ways to end the situation. A professional does not undermine or discredit a bad boss, even if he is a real jerk."

I agree, PhilBW . It also means not surfing the web and responding to Eng-Tips during work hours...

Seriously, I do agree: the boss is the boss. If you don't want to work for him, then leave. Otherwise, do what he wants.

I draw the line at abuse, though. There is no need to yell at me (unless - maybe - I've messed up and you're not going to fire me). There is no need, either, to belittle me for you own pleasure.

Fighting back in public isn't professional. UNLESS:

Let's say the boss makes fun of you at a meeting or whereever/whatever. That's fine because he is the boss. Here's the real problem: your coworkers may pick on you and try to one-up you as the boss does it. People, being people will do this. In these instances, it is acceptable to punch them in the nose - in front of your/their peers.

(but it's not professional).

 

[MedicineEng]

I believe that this all started when companies had their policies revised and included in their first phrase:"People are our most valuable asset"...

 

[DaveVikingPE]

People are our most valuable asset"...

And thus they can be SOLD.

 

[csd72]

yes, an asset is something you OWN

 

[KENAT]

There are times when your company really needs you to put in extra time. Professionalism is working the extra time even if it doesn't fit your personal plans. There are other times the company wants you to work extra hours, but don't really need you to work extra hours. You can respectfully decline, explaining your reasoning, and still be acting in a professional manner. If they still demand your time, professionalism means putting in the time. If it gets to be too much, there are other jobs.

If being professional means letting your employer dictate what you do or don’t do outside of agreed work hours/compensation then I’m not sure I’m that fussed about being professional.

I’ve worked extra hours (both with & without extra pay), & I’ll continue to do so when it’s required and it doesn’t negatively affect my family to any significant degree.

Many (most?) cases where the company needs you to work extra hours it’s because of a lack of planning on their part, be it accepting too much work, setting unrealistic deadlines, laying off staff but expecting same throughput, disgruntled employees quitting, poor staff working with inadequate supervision etc.

Lack of preparation & planning on their part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on mine.

Given the amount of stars you got PhilBW I suspect most will disagree with me but there it is.

As to those who equate Professionalism directly with having PE, this doesn’t really apply to all sectors in all geographic locations in every case.

Epoisses, thanks for the link. I read the first few then realized if I actually did the professional thing all the time I’d get canned for not being productive enough!


KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[BJC]

"There are times when your company really needs you to put in extra time. Professionalism is working the extra time even if it doesn't fit your personal plans."

When your company can push you around and you roll over like a trained seal, they loose respect for you, you loose respect for your self and to that you can add your family and friends.
Your moving on the Professional gradient but the movement is going towards orange pickers and hamburger flippers.

You can't be the only professional in an organization, if your management is running a sloppy, unprofessional show neither help them or bail out.

 

[kchayfie]

I think it would be more fair to say:

"There are times when your company really needs you to put in extra time. Professionalism is working the extra time even if it doesn't negatively impact your personal plans"

Saying "I'm not working late coz I don't wanna and I'd rather watch TV" is fairly low on the professionalism scale.
Saying "I know the meeting is important to the project but I need to visit my father in hospital" is higher up the scale.
Saying "I've paid a lot of money for tickets to the match tonight but I'll get in early in the morning to finish it off" is equally acceptable.

Professionalism is about being prepared to compromise on the not-important-non-work stuff if work is important, not just giving up all your outside-work-life because your boss asked you to.